On Sequencing the Voyager

The Moog Forum Minimoog Forum
1

Over the last few months that I have owned a Voyager, I have found it to be both a great synth for experimentation but also a great lead synth. I have used it now many times in combination with my Korg M3 which supplies the pads and the Voyager the lead.

Up until recently, I have never been a fan of sequencers because they seem boring to me, the same thing over and over again and certainly, a survey of the stuff people put out on videos as demos would lead one to believe that this is all sequencers do. I suppose that would be true for old school sequencers but there are some new entries into the sequencer market that have be re-thinking my position. Well, that and having sampled some of Tangerine Dream’s albums. They use sequencers a lot in their work but the sequence changes during a song so it’s not monotonous at all.

The two sequencers I have thought about are the Tenori and the Genqoqs Nemo.

My impressions of the Tenori is that is a toy and an expensive one at that. All flash but not much real musical power. My impressions of the Nemo is that is very expensive but very deep with cross modulated sequences which at this point, I don’t totally understand. What is clear to me is that this sequencer can produce the kind of evolving sequences that Tangerine Dream uses all the time. Sequencers become not something that is merely turned on and left to run, but a performance.

I also have the Korg M3 with KARMA and I was very interested in using this with the Voyager to produce sequences. I still am but you can change sequences in real time with KARMA. You can change parameters but not in the same way that a Nemo works.

So I am wondering if anyone who uses the Voyager has the Nemo and what kind of sucess you have had with it? There are a few good demos out there that actually do the kind of thing I want to do so I am encouraged.

The other reason that I want a demo is that I am not tremendously skilled as a musican although I have my moments but a sequencer like Nemo offers me an opportunity so explore complex musical structures that otherwise would be difficult for me to play.

Any thoughts?

2

A post script to this is using Nemo to sequence things like pitch. Nemo has a great way to bring expression into a sequence. With a multichannel MIDI to CV convertor, its possible to control many parameters on the Voyager simultaneously in a way that is very direct and visual.

If I just wanted a pre-determined sequence I would use something like Live but Nemo is very tactile and visual. It is as it claims a “performance sequencer”.

3

I use a Nemo already for some time now with my Voyager…why use Midi to CV when you can do it all with Midi…??

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6218

4

Lux,
You gotta think about sequencers just like any other control device. You can have a sequencer control your filters, your oscillators, other modulation devices including other sequencers.

I am a member of the dotcom users group and I have seen emails come through about using sequencers as data arrays. One master sequencer is starting a slave sequencer on one step, telling a second sequencer to modulate the filters on the second step, activating a bank of oscillators on a third step, and firing off envelope generators on the fourth and so on.. These are applications far beyond simple note pattern generators.

Like an expression pedal, a sequencer is like having another whole second person making patches, changing settings, essentially doing your bidding.

This is the beauty of Bob’s work. These modules like oscillators for instances that are sound generators first and foremost become voltage sources in their alternate state. Filters which are signal modifyers in their original design become sound generators in their alternate state. This is part of what draws me so heavily to Moog products and Analog Subtractive SYnthesis and keeps me coming back for more and more.


Eric

5

From your post, we share similar background, musical experience, style and goals. We also face same performance challenges and look into similar hardware solutions.

My own requirements for a hardware sequencer were simple : 16x4 steps, memory banks but more importantly : CV output. Initially the MFB step 64, backed by strong you-tube demos, was my dream unit. But it was impossible to get in a reasonable delay, so I had to look elsewhere. Price was a consideration, don’t want to spend 1600 bucks on a whim for a sequencer.

Web browsing for sequencer products and classisified, I quickly came across a Korg Electribe EA1 mark ii, that, from the specs, seemed would fit the bill. It was a well worth $175 dollar whim. The built-in patterns and synth tones are annoying as hell, but when you build them from scratch, it becomes a well-mannered sequencer.
16x4, 256 patterns, each pattern 2 parts, patterns into ‘songs’. You can even record some control changes (such as pitchwheel, mod wheel etc) as part of a pattern. Scalable steps (VERY nice). On the fly pattern recording and editing. The list goes on. The midi-to-CV part was filled-in with a Doepfer A190-2, which carries a good 4 CV’s (+gate).

All in all, it will do all the Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schultze, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre, Oldfield or the likes on any midi or CV controlled synth, if I care to program that far (i do some). Building my own sequences, however, is my primary goal, and the unit is simple enough to program and start using almost right away. Flexible. More capabilities (almost) than I have time or care to explore. It’s already producing the results I want. I am using it on a guitar rig also, where the sequenced pitch CV pattern controls the cut-off frequency or the LFO rate of Osc3, on a guitar signal processed by a Voyager. Very peculiar sound on sustained notes.

I don’t have any hands on experience on any other hardware sequencer, and I may not have for a while. The small Electribe turned out to be a good and capable find from both economical and suitability point of views. I’ll keep on exploring that for a while.

6

Here is a list I compiled not too long ago of hardware sequencers:

Analogue Sltn.
http://www.analoguehaven.com/analoguesolutions/oberkornmk3/
Oberkorn MK3 Sequencer
$850
3 cv 2 gate channels.

Oberkorn with sliders 699



Analogue Systems
http://www.bigcitymusic.com/product.asp?cat=new&pid=1000197
rs200 3x8 step sequencer
$735

COTK 960 clone
970 euros

Modcan model 17a
http://www.modcan.com/modhtml/modules.html
$787

Doepfer
$650

dotcom
q119 $560
q960 $800

Futureretro Orb
http://www.future-retro.com/orboverview.html
$550


Signal Arts Tetra Maps III
http://www.bigcitymusic.com/product.asp?cat=New&pid=1000540
$1375

7

I don’t own a Nemo but I have used one and will buy one when I can afford it. To me it’s more than a sequencer. It’s more like an instrument that wants to be played. I can’t really explain that but if you ever get to spend several hours with one at some point you’ll know exactly what I mean. It’s one of the coolest sequencers (hardware or software) I’ve ever used.

On the computer side (not that you asked) I use Numerology when I want step sequencer type stuff. It’s a ‘modular’ sequencer and you can patch sequencer modules together to get different results from straight forward 8 step pitch/gate to self playing generative stuff. http://www.five12.com/n2.html

8

I read your thread. I do know that I can use MIDI directly but of course there are some limiations with the Voyager (two modulation buses) and then there is pot mapping. I would have to check and see what I can do with CCs and pot mapping but that may give me more channels.

CVs are also higher resolution and much more powerful than CCs. For example, I can mix CVs with my CP-251 and use fooger LFOs and envelopes which is much more flexible than CCs.

9

I want to respond to Erik and Jon’s comments first. It seems to me that with Moog products, you either get them or not. If one thinks “in the box”, then the Voyager is a monophonic synth with no effects. But, if one realizes what possiblities that CVs open up, including the expander for the Voyager, and moogerfoogers and even the controller pedal and CP-251, then we are talking about something that is much more in the experimental realm which is what analogue synthesis is all about.

I think the brilliance of Bob Moog was that he realized the difference between something that looks good on technical specs and an instrument. Moog knew that an instrument had to interact in a natural way with the musician. Parameters burried in a menu are no longer performance aspects of a synthesizer.

So when Jon talked about the Nemo as being an instrument (which is why I bought a Voyager - its an instrument), it peaked my ear. First, I saw a step sequencer write large. But then I realized the logic of laying out keys and lights in an elegant way which allows the technological collection of parameters, become an instument.

The cross modulation stuff on the Nemo is what fascinated me and what places this one out of the box. If I wanted a step sequencer I would use my Radius module on my M3 and just connect the Voyger via MIDI cable or use KARMA. The more I work with KARMA the more I realize that it’s made for the M3. It works with lots of multilayered sounds and it works really well. Also, far more than a step sequencer and also not just an arranger.

But for the Voyager, I saw lots of possiblities in the Nemo. It’s a signficant chunk of change although not as much as the Voyager and believe me, I am not going to make an impulse buy of this one. It’s why I post to these boards to get a feel for the product. That and actually reading the manual.

So right now, only in the discovery stages and I very much appreicate the feedback here.

By the way, KARMA, the M3 and the Voyager go really well together. First time I played music and actually started bouncing up and down and playing some searing leads with heavy use of pitch bend and mod wheels. Now I would love to go in the other direction and sequence the Voyager and play some leads on the M3.

10

Regarding Portamental’s post:

I know Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schultze, Kraftwerk, JM Jarre, Oldfield in varying degrees but each of these are very different artists. Floyd has not done much with sequencers. Of course there is the famous on the run but sure, that can be done with a step sequencer because its a fixed sequence and the pop audience is very easily impressed by increasing the cutfoff frequency and playing a simply sequence. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fig Pink Floyd fan but for otherr reasons although more pre Wall when Wright had more of an influence and Waters ego was more in check.

I have not listened to a lot of Kraftwerk but one of the reasons why is that its pretty repetitive and is for that matter Jarre’s use of the sequencer. I am sure that some would disagree here but compared with Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schultze, its more minimalistic.

TDs sequences change a lot and are very complex often involving polyrhythms. This is what intriques me about Nemo. I want to be able to change sequences dynamically in a very visual and tactile way so that the sequencer becomes instrument. I can’t explain what I mean by instrument and I agree with Jon on that and understand what is meant by that as well.

If I were an accomplished classical musican then I suppose I would have the chops to play some really complex stuff but given that I am not, a sequencer that play like and instrument offeres some unique creative avenues.

As I have said before, I don’t need a step sequencer but thats not what Nemo is.

11

Erik:

Thanks very much for the list of sequencers. I really appreciate it. I will have to do some research on these. I want to look at everything that might be useful to me before investing serious money. Some of these are also CV based which I have a very strong preference towards. MIDI in its current form is a dying standard and not up to the task of high bandwidth, high resolution controllers.

12

Lux,

The only real thing ill say to your comments, is that the only menu based things that I would try to access in a performance would be the filter poles. I think thise are relatively easy to turn on and off or keep the menu right there so you really just have to hit cursor and enter.

Afroman’s keyboard players plays a Karma and that thing has some nice synth bass sounds.

Where I really began to understand that the Modules had double features was on moogarchives.com. reading both the functional description and musical application of each module really opened my eyes to exactly how complicated that stuff is. JEEZ! Bob really had his stuff together.


You are certianly welcome on the sequencer list. I am needing one or two of those myself.

Waters ego in check…yeah right hahah. He tore the wall down all by himself and if you ask him he will probably tell you that HE was the walrus.


I have never really had much luck with MIDI. Im hoping that the Voyager will Mate with the Taurus Pedals nicely but if not Ill have to get one of those hz/V Cv converters.


Eric

13

No, they don’t not use much sequencers but their music (and long repetitive riffs, spaced echoes and do so on) is a good candidate for that. Take for instance the famous bass riff from ‘Money’. Easy to sequence in and a strong base on which to jam afterward. I go from there and later on, improve on background patterns etc. Anyway, the exact artists or music style or riffs is here only to illustrate the point.

I understand Nemo is a completely different product. But for me, if the piece of hardware becomes so sophisticated as to being a musical instrument itself, i’ll get ahead on my music and keyboard learning, cuz ultimately, I want to play keyboard synth music hopefully, not sequencer per se, which is more a tool to me.

14

Im doing a lot of solo stuff these days. Working on an all Moog album. So I view the sequencer as a better alternative than me cloning myself and then breaking up with myself over creative differences shortly thereafter.

15

For me, everthing is a tool. I get an idea and ask myself: “How can I make that sound”. I got a Korg M3 because I wanted a solid workstation base and KARMA and the Radius option really sweetened the deal not to mention the 88 key weighted keyboard which is very nice.

But be it the Radius or the Virus (and I know there are bound to be Virus fans out there) or any virtual analogue, its not the same thing so I wanted something analogue and something with control votages so I could experiment. I knew the Voyager could do that and I was right. Often I get sounds and say, wow, I didn’t no it could make that sound. Doesn’t happen when all you are doing is running a program.

So both my Voyager and M3 are tools to get sounds. I don’t care if they are virtual, analogue, digital or natural, if they make the sound I want then I am interested in them.

As for any kind of sequencing, I have a love/hate relationship. One the one hand, I see the advantage of having a machine create notes but I also realize that it takes something away. Truth be told I am an adequate musican in many ways but the composer part of me wants sequences of notes that I can’t play. So sequencers will do that but I also want them to leave some core of creativity. Step sequencers don’t do that but KARMA on the M3 does and so does the Nemo from what I can see.

So I guess for me the line between composiion and performance as a musican is blurred. I just know what final product I want in a recording and then find a way to get it. If the nemo can become part of the toolbox to do that, great.

16

The Frostwave sequencer (discontinued) is worth a look, as well as the discontinued Doepfer Regelwerk and Schaltwerk.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/doepfer.642.htm