I agree with Eric. I think the guy, pedophile or not, could write some pretty good pop songs. Along the same lines, Phil Spector, a convicted murderer, was a tremendous producer in his day. A person may be a criminal, but it does not negate whether they are an artist.
As I wrote in an eariler post, check out the threads written by Bill Wolfer, a Thriller session man. MJ wrote several tracks from Thriller, and even came into the studio with demos he made at home. To think that Jackson is not a musician because he doesn’t play an instrument is a mistake. Singers are musicians.
Regarding skin color, it is quite possible he had that skin disease that he said he had. I saw a woman the other day with a bad case of it. She was an African American, but there were many huge blotches of skin (including her face) that were very, very white. When I first saw her I thought she was white.
The nose and other cosmetic surgeries. . . I agree with. There are a lot of people out there doing some insane things to their faces and bodies. Besides cosmetic surgery, there are some people with tattoos and piercings that are quite extreme.
Michael Jackson was a great artist and entertainer. However, his lifestyle and the allegations of pedophilia will also be a part of his legacy.
Torque is a measure of rotational force.
Like how high your heels lift off the floor when trying to pee straight down with morning wood.
Get the concept now?!
On the subject of MJ;
Where else but in America can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich amd famous white woman?
I hear they are going to recycle all the plastic in his face into Lego blocks so that little boys will finally get to play with him.
An amazing talent but a wretched human.
Keep up the music theory for dummies! It helps us wankers. I’d like someone to actually EXPLAIN the circle of fifths. Not just the diagram in every music book.
No, I am not sticking up for a pedophile. The guy was a great artist. Period. I can’t call him a pedophile because he was never convicted as one. Granted, where there is smoke, there is often fire.
If he was a pedophile, that is reprehensible. Perhaps what is worse are the parents who brought their children to a man who was rumored to be one. Why? To sacrifice their children for a chance to make money with out of court settlements? He had a trial and acted in an extreme manner which highlighted a man with mental problems. Yet, the jury found him innocent. I assumed guilt, but then again, I wasn’t in the courtroom. Nor did I read the court records. I just listened to all the media reports and made up my mind from that. (Having been a part of the media, I know what drives it.) Something made those 12 people think he was innocent.
Three jurors changed their minds after the trial. Why would that be? Public opinion? Nine still didn’t change their minds despite an outcry.
Now there is some talk about the boy who settled out of court saying that none of the allegations were true. His father made him say those things. I don’t know how true that is. It is something that I read recently.
For the record, I have never been a huge fan of Jackson. I don’t own any of his recordings. In fact, as a photo editor for a news paper, years ago I had a chance to see the Victory tour show (right in front of the stage) for free, but I didn’t go. I just see Michael Jackson as a very talented musician/artist who was a sad and pathetic person. Guilty of a crime? I think time will tell. However, for the time being he is considered innocent.
Do I need to bring up the O.J. Simpson trial here? With the right amount of money and legal team, even a double murderer can be acquitted.
You say you heard the media reports and made you’re mind up from there? So do you think he was a pedophile or not? I formed my opinion from the ton of media reports that suggested he was a serious child predator.
Michael himself admitted to having boys in his bed all night. How many grown men do you know that do that?
What about the Jesus juice? The secret stairway that connected the arcade to the wine seller? The bedroom with no windows, full of toys and a keypad lock?
The guy made some hits, but that doesn’t give him a pass on something as serious as pedophilia.
Subtronik:
Can we stop with the Michael Jackson worship now please?
eric coleridge wrote:
Where does this MJ cynicism come from? I think it´s extremely myopic to underestimate his contribution to popular and high music/culture
Subtronik response:
The guy was an obvious pedophile. He had an amusement park in his front yard for God sake.
This argument has been over the integrity of his artistry and contribution to music. You believe he is guilty of a heinous crime, and therefore his artistry is negated. My side is of the argument is that crime or not, his musical contribution is undeniable.
Unlike the Simpson trial, Jackson’s was not televised. Therefore I have never heard the arguments for and against. At the time of Jackson’s trial, the media reports had me believing he was guilty. And we know how unbiased the media is . . . especially with celebrities. But put in retrospect, I can’t make an opinion without facts. From an outsider’s view, the guy looks like a pedophile. However, most pedophiles I have seen pictures of look pretty normal.
Now watch the media, and see how they treat Jackson. The media’s soul purpose is to make money, and they will give the people what they want to hear.
+1. I was joking about the McDonalds thing. I heard it on the radio once, and it stuck with me. As much as I like MJ’s music, I must say that his legacy will forever be tainted with his association with pedophilia…whether or not he actually did it. May Michael Jackson forever rest in peace. He is sadly missed by many.
I agree. Regardless of who one is in life, you cannot deny their abilities and accomplishments. It is their history. I had hoped that some of the craziness that plagued these boards in the past had disappeared, but I guess I was mistaken.
Man, I hope that when I die people don’t ridicule my art and talents against everything I did, possibly did or whatever. After all, we all do things that we are not proud of. I have done my share. I don’t get it when a person choses to spend any energy on anyone or anything that they detest.
Hitler…are you serious? I am sorry, but that is fucked up to compare anyone to him. One should really be ashamed for that.
Well then I guess he’s guilty. As is anyone that takes their kids to Six Flags.
Back on topic… I really love the synth-heavy basslines and effects that can be found throughout a lot of his tracks.
Anyone got any hard info on ‘Scream’? This is one of my favorites, there’s a lot of interesting synth stuff going on in there — would love to know who was responsible for what, and what equipment they used. Have done a bit of digging online but to no avail…
Scream is pretty good. I was out playing some pool last night and somebody played Thriller on the juke box, and that track still works after all these years. Some people in the pool hall started doing that weird Zombie dance. It was pretty funny. I absolutely love that lengthy groove section where the zombies do their dance. That opening bass line to Thriller is quite nice. It sounds Moogy to my ears.
We do a regular hip hop jam session down in the east village in NY, last week we dropped a number of his jams including Butterflies and Remember the Time (I’m a bass player that doubles on Voyager bass)… needless to say the crowd and MCs were in a frenzy
For me it’s been hard to make the connection. You see someone on the surface who has almost ‘checked out’ of reality. The face, the persona, the wackiness, the ‘pop star’. Hard to think of him as human at times, let alone as a father. Today’s service really showed the ‘human’ side of him, and the effect he had on people. Very touching really.
At the end of the day we were very fortunate to be exposed to his music, and as sad as it is for his life to be cut short, I would have hated to see him deteriorate further into old age… 60’s, 70’s etc. He’s gone out like an icon should really, and immortalized at that.
