Never Can Say Goodbye to Michael Jackson

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
21

Apparently Jackson was very good to work with in the studio and quite hands on.
Bill Wolfer was a session keyboardist during the Thriller album. Go to the link below and check out the Bill Wolfer comments.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33273&start=15

Here’s one:

"SWAN wrote:I was wondering-how much artistic freedom did you get to contribute in sessions like these? Is it a case of Quincy/producer having a pretty good idea of what they want or did you get quite a lot of input?

Thanks in advance :slight_smile:"



In all of the sessions I did for Thriller, I was always impressed by how much Michael knew exactly what he wanted, from the first demo sessions at his home studio to the final work with Quincy at Westlake.

We started Billie Jean by Michael singing the top three notes of the opening chords, and we spent a long time trying to find the right harmony. As you know, there are a million ways you can harmonize three moving notes, and I tried about every one, but Michael had a clear sound in his head that he wanted, not only the harmony, but the synth sound itself. It was a patch he had heard me fooling around with when we were on the ‘81 tour, and recreating it wasn’t easy either, because he could only try to describe it to me.

Michael was especially hands-on for all three of those songs (Bille Jean, Wanna be startin’ somethin’ and Beat it), because those were his compositions, he had done the 16 track demos in his house, and he had a clear solid vision of every little sound.

So, the artistic freedom in this case was always Michael’s. We were just there to get the sound out of his head and onto tape. It wasn’t easy for him, because he didn’t play an instrument. He could just sing the parts, and try to describe the sound he wanted. But he was always patient, and we worked as though we had all the time in the world.

For me, it’s easy to hear the difference between Michael’s songs and Quincy’s, and I could see that they were starting to move in different directions. For example, Michael told me that at first Quincy didn’t like Beat it, and felt it was out of place on the record. Michael stuck to his guns, worked extra hard on the demo, and won his case, and Beat it went on to win record of the year.

22

His music aside, I know he touched many people in many ways.

23

First off, MJ was a great entertainer and very talented. I think that we can all see his brilliance.

However, keep in mind that whatever is written on CDs/albums means nothing. It is considered a work of art and nothing on it has to be true - with the exception of titles (album and songs), the artist(s) that it is being published under and the catalog number. Everything else can be either fact or fantasy.

Someone being credited on an album does not necessarily mean anything. One of the big bargaining chips sometimes is to give someone credit on an album in exchange for services or sometimes to even reward them. In those cases, that is all it is - a reward.

In reality, only the Library of Congress lists who actually is credited with writing something (for both songs & albums). That is who legally wrote a composition. Everything else is meaningless. Of course, one can still buy up someone else’s publishing rights and such and make money off of it, but the true creator is always recorded at the Library of Congress when someone copyrights something.

In the case of MJ, I haven’t researched who wrote what. I do know that Quincy Jones and many others helped quite a bit to make those albums. However, regardless of other’s input, one cannot deny that without MJ, those works of art would never be what they are - brilliant.

You have to remember that no matter how big or talented an artist is, none of us do everything completely by ourselves. There are always others that helped us in some fashion - even if it was just for inspiration. I personally believe that the brilliance in an artist is how they gather all of the ideas like clay and sculpt out a masterpiece from it. And that each and every one of us could take the same ideas (clay) and sculpt something completely different from it. Each with a brilliance of it’s own.

RIP Mike.


Michael…

24

I do all my own lyrics, vocals, audio and video. My inspiration comes from machines.

Sometimes all it takes is one person.

25

Hey Sub -

Sure, some of us can do all of the technical and performance parts ourselves - I mostly do the same as I rarely record with another artist. I was pointing out that even in it’s most basic form, someone still inspired you. Those machines were designed by someone. I often am only inspired by my Moogs… Sometimes by an empty water bottle or some other found object that I am making sounds with… :stuck_out_tongue:

Projects as large as MJ’s require a huge amount of involvement and are almost never done by one person. It is near impossible for one person to do it all on these project simply due to time constraints. A project like that needs to complete in 8-10 months so that it can be marketed.

My point was more that every artist is brilliant in their own right regardless of how much they did on a piece (sing, play, engineer, write, etc.) or even what there talents are. Only they make that music what it is. Without them, it is simply someone else’s music.

26

I saw a TV special a couple days ago where there was a clip of an interview with MJ.
He was in a “home” type studio setting talking about layering multi-tracks to build his sound.

All of a sudden, he starts talking about rhythms & proceeded to “Beatbox” or vocalize a catchy drumkit. I was intrigued to say the least.

He was eccentric but extremely talent & will be missed.
I was very much looking forward to his next production.

RIP

27

So basically what we’re saying is he was a whiz at Guitar Hero,had an infinite amount of cash, and could afford all the musIcian
lackies he could ever use?

LOL

28

His presentation style was nothing short of immense production with some OCD thrown in…

29

FWIW, I wouldn’t stand a chance either. A minor chord…is that three black keys? Yes, I am serious.

30

C, E-flat, G. Play those three and you have a C minor chord. Change the E flat to E and you have a C major chord.

They all follow that pattern (unless you’re playing an inversion): a root note, a note 3 semitones above (4 semitones in the case of a major chord), and another note 7 semitones above the root note.

Voila. You can now play 99% of pop music. :stuck_out_tongue:

31

Chord Type Easy Formula

Major Triad 1+3+5 of major scale
Minor Triad 1+b3+5
Diminished Triad 1+b3+b5
Augmented Triad 1+3+#5
Major Seventh 1+3+5+7
Dominant Seventh 1+3+5+b7
Diminished Seventh 1+b3+b5+6
Minor Seventh 1+b3+5+b7

Traditional Harmony (chord progressions)

Major = Major minor minor Major Major minor diminished Major

Natural minor (melodic descending) = minor diminished Major minor minor Major Major minor

Harmonic minor = minor diminished Augmented minor Major Major diminished minor

Melodic minor (ascending) = minor minor Augmented Major Major diminished diminished minor

Sevenths = M7 m7 m7 M7 Dom7 m7 half-dim M7

32

I never really understood chord progressions. If I know what notes make up a particular chord, I can play it. Otherwise, I just make up my own chords, whether they exist in notation or not. I understood Christopher W’s post a whole lot better than DeFrag’s. As I’ve said before, I’m not a classically trained musician. I just make sounds. Thanks guys! Looks like I’ve got some studying to do. :blush:

33

Glad to help. Frankly music theory (generally) bores me, but there are a few nuggets of wisdom that are fun to implement.

For example: it’s interesting if you’re voicing like a guitar and playing a polyphonic synth - or a monophonic synth with oscillators tuned at different intervals - through an overdrive or distortion pedal. Certain note combinations (“suspended chords” in the lingo) respond very well to being overdriven.

What’s a suspended chord? C-F-G is one. Basically it’s a root note, the note 5 semitones above the root, and the note 7 semitones above the root. In notation it’s written as Csus4. Why does it work so beautifully when distorted? Well, the harmonic relationships of the notes are the most consonant (the tonic: C, the dominant: G, and the subdominant: F). The ratios of frequencies in those notes are the closest to “perfect” of any in the scale: G is 3/2 the frequency of C, while F is 4/3 the frequency of C. Distort them and you get a pleasing sound because of those low ratios. Guitarists use this to good effect, but keyboardists can too.

34

Thank you so much! Now I won’t feel so bad about buying a Fender Rhodes or Yamaha Motiff-based synth. Great stuff, but my question is: why didn’t my piano teacher put it like that? God, those lessons were brutally painful and dry. This explains everything I need to get started into polyphony. :smiley:

35

Good information Christopher.

Are you a music teacher? If not you should be, you explain things in an interesting way.

36

Far from it!

I only took Royal Conservatory lessons on piano up to Grade 5, so my theory is actually a little on the weak side; I’m more of an autodidact. One thing I do relish though is taking an annoyingly tricky concept (like explaining torque versus horsepower!) and trying to make it comprehensible.

One thing I forgot to mention about playing the suspended chords… if it still sounds too muddy then either dial back the amount of distortion, or try removing the fourth (i.e. playing only the C and the G in the aforementioned example). That distills it down to the very basics of a guitar power chord: a root note, and then a second one seven semitones above.

37

Let’s simplify the WHOLE extended chord thing even more. It’s all basic math. Spend 30 minutes reading this in front of a keyboard and I guarantee you’ll have a eureka and be able to play C7#9b5.

For illustration everything is in the key of C. There are only 7 unique notes in the C major scale right? (All the white keys) Well, not exactly. What if you keep on playing up the white keys? The next C key would be the 8th note of the scale, D would be 9, E is 10, and so on up to 13 which is A. Notes 8 through 13 are based on OVERTONES of that low C note you hit. They’re all hiding in there. Hit a lower C on a REAL piano sometime and see how many overtones you can hear in that one note. If you’re not terribly deaf, and spend a good half hour at it, you’ll pick out a LOT. Why don’t we go higher than 13? Overtones above that are not very strong or audible in comparison.

Now grab some masking tape, put a piece on each white key starting with middle C and numbering up to 13. I’m serious, do it now!

Now we have to talk about those darned black keys; flats and sharps. A# is just to the right of A, Ab just to the left for example.

Most people can play a C major chord; C E G. Let’s look at the numbers. It’s 1 3 5. Add the 7th note. This is Cmajor7. Now let’s add the 9th note. Spiffy! You’re Steely Dan.

If you add the 11 or 13 you’ll notice it doesn’t sound all that interesting. We’ll fix that. Generally we play a 7th chord with a FLAT 7. (One of those weird rules beyond our scope. Just trust me) So C7 is 1 3 5 b7 (b means flat) Way more rock n roll, right.

Now let’s play C11 using this rule. 1 3 5 b7 9 11. You are now a jazzbo. Play me a 13th. Lights coming on yet?

OK so what’s a minor? 1 b3 5. Now play me a minor 7.
1 b3 5 b7 (Remember the 7th rule?)

Minor 9th?
1 b3 5 b7 9

What if you see this chord? Cmaj7. This tells us to forget the 7 rule. So play 1 3 5 7. Mall jazz! Cmaj9? 1 3 5 7 9

C7#9?
1 3 5 b7 #9 Very nice Mr Hendrix.

OK now, things are clicking. Remember that terrifying C7#9b5 up at the top? Take a stab…


Was it 1 3 b5 7 #9 ? Congratulations.



One final word. You don’t have to play all the notes of a chord, or even play them in the numerical order. The 3 and 7 are important, but the 5 sounds so strongly in the 1, so you can drop it easily and people’s brains will fill in the blank. If you’re playing with a bass player, he gets to play 1, so now you’ve eliminated 2 notes. Mix up the order of the notes. Take any note in the chord and move it an octave up or down.

Play me a C11
1 3 5 b7 9 11 13 (BTW you need both hands)

Now play it this way;
1 b7 9 11 13
Sounds much cleaner, yes?

Get creative, drop the 9, lower the 13th one octave.
1 6 b7 11 ( 6 is the same as 13) You are now cool as fuck.

Did this help? I skipped over a lot of stuff like why there isn’t a C8 or C10 chord, and that there 11 other root notes that all have the same rules, so don’t shoot me.

38

Impressive explanation. :open_mouth: Do you do lessons? I could use lessons that are explained this way. All I need is a polyphonic keyboard and I could practice this! :bulb:

39

Where do you get this info from? You´re saying MJ didn´t actually ´write´what he´s credited as writing? Just because one doesn´t physically personally print out the musical notation doesn´t mean he didn´t write the song, does it? I doubt if many Lennon-McCartney compositions were originally written out either. It´s pretty standard in pop music to ´write´ songs live to tape.

Where does this MJ cynicism come from? It´s abundantly obvious, to me, that he was a monumental force of nature on the popular music/cultural landscape in many capacities (dance, music, fashion, gender and racial identity, ect.). I wasn´t an MJ fanatic or anything, but I think it´s extremely myopic to underestimate his contribution to popular and high music/culture. :smiley:

40

Can we stop with the Michael Jackson worship now please?

The guy was an obvious pedophile. He had an amusement park in his front yard for God sake. :unamused:

If you believe he was only ‘sleeping’ next to those boys, you probably also believe that his skin naturally changed color or that the only nose work he ever had done was to help him breath better.

People with their heads in the sand on this one should be ashamed of themselves. The boys he molested are now screwed up for life.

Three of the jurists even regretted acquitting him after the trial, and those are the ones that would admit they made a mistake.

Someone finally speaking up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DcViUBZeAs