so i’m considering selling my LP Tribute at some point, and working on putting together a psuedo modular using: 6 moogerfoogers, 2 CP-251s, vx-352, vx-351, and a voyager rme as the centerpiece.
I wanted to inquire about any limitations with using the foogers and a patchbay together. I’ve read about certain foogers having functionality issues with patchbays, and haven’t been able to duplicate the problems, so any help would appreciated.
the 6 foogers will be the 101,102,103,104z,105,107 (i don’t expect anyone to know what the 107 might encounter problem-wise, although i think the freq in will be the main issue possibly). I should preface the inquiry with the fact that the patchbay, as well as the cables will be balanced. i recall someone mentioning an issue with the 104 and the time cv in, but haven’t been able to replicate the issue using the patchbay i have now. any one know which specific CVs i need to look out for, if any?
thanks!
::edit:: if you’re curious, here’s a quick n dirty mock-up of the project underway:
i was about to get patchbay my foogers but i ended up just turning them around with their holes facing me. its easier to tweak the knobs upsidedown than it is to patch without seeing the holes.
iirc the final reason for my desicion was that while most of the cvins add the voltage to the parameters some replaced it. or did i dream that? i dont remember for sure
maybe i was thinking of the 102s carrier in jack replacing the internal carrier when socketed.
you could ofc work around that with a dummy from carrier out → carrier in
The delay problem may not be noticable at first. Basically what happens is the range of knobs is shortened when nothing is plugged into the jacks. The dummy plug trick makes you forget all about it. Just solder a jumper from the sleeve to the tip on a TS plug. TRS plug works fine as well, again solder a jumper from the sleeve to the tip and leave the ring alone.
Thx Oyster Rock!
My 101 picks up interfence from my 102, but once again the dummy plug trick eliminates the problem(plugged into the audio in on the 101). I only have the 101, 102, 103, 104z and a CP-251. I also have an EH Bass Micro Synth, Sherman Filterbank ver. 1, and my soundcard hooked up to the patcbay.
Hey there-
I have run alll of my mfs to a patchbay and yes there are a couple of jacks that act weird on the Murf and the delay. (Also the carrier in on the ringmod)
THere used to be a long thread about it on the forum but it may be long gone.
I’ll try to send you some specific info when I get some time.
Here is a link to some old shots of how the PB looked in the end. MF are color coded on the PB to match the switches. Delays are in white. Murfs are in Green. Voyager is in the upper left hand quarter
thanks so much for all the responses. i also should mention i’ll also be running the audio ins and outs for the foogers through a different patchbay, as the CV one will be a HOSA brand one, and i’m not about to run an all mogami setup out to it just for the sake of space conservation.
so i the carrier in ->carrier out thing i figured out last night, no problem there.
other than the TIME IN CV jack, what else does the 104 have issues with? feedback in?
what functions on the 105 have problems? is it the same “limited knob adjustment” problem?
the dummy jack solution looks nice. would connecting a regular patch cable to a dummy source (eg, TIME IN connected to a mult or attenuator output with nothing connected to their input, or maybe to the LOOP OUT on the 104z when its in INT. LOOP)?
also, would this be a suitable replacement as the dummy jack?:
I believe the mix, time, and feedback controls get weird when hooked up to a patchbay(I’ve been away from my setup, for a bit). Don’t know about the Murf.
I think the whole problem with the 104(5) in a patcbay is that the jacks are left hanging open. The original signal path is broken once a plug is in the jack. The dummy plug brings it back to how it was before it was hooked up to the patchbay. Or, if you simply make a patch from one CV source to the offending jack then your Ok because you have a complete signal path.
I hope that made sense. I have very limited knowledge about this stuff, but I believe that is whats going on.
Thats what I did too. 101= orange, 102= blue, 103= pink, and 104= white. I wrote the names of the jacks with pen and used highlighters for the color coding.
This is what I was thinking about before with my DIY patchbay. If you used sockets with switching contacts, then they would close the connection by shorting the tip to the ring when no plug was inserted. I’m guessing this is exactly what happens on the foogers’ sockets.
I wonder why this is only a problem on the MF104-5? The 105’s CV jacks are wired differently, right?
The 104 has 5 jacks going to the patchbay in all. There’s the Audio In and the (Audio) Mix Out jacks. Then, there are the Delay Out, Loop In, and Loop Out jacks.
That leaves the CV Mix, Feedback, and Time jacks of which all 3 ARE affecting the sound with the TS cable plugged in so we can not run them to the patchbay.
Some of the plugs on the mfs cannot be setup in the patchbay due to the way moog decided to make them. If you were to have a lead lugged into these ports, the pedal would not work properly.
The ones I know of are the following.
Murf: rate, mix, envelope, aux out
Ring Mod: carrier in
These are the ones Ezratrice and I came up with so these will all need the dummy plugs if you do run them to a patch bay
I wish I could figure out how a patchbay works. I’ve been to http://www.neutrik.com & read some of their pdfs & printed out some google searches but still am not getting it.
I can understand that a delay plugged into the back of a patchbay channel will always be connect through normaled connections unless I tap from the front, but what I’d like to be able to do is run all my guitar/moog effects into a patchbay & simply reroute their sequencing in relation to each other.
Additionally, most effects are mono whereas only a treasured few have stereo outputs & I’d like to be able to take advantage of the stereo by using a patchbay if possible. Here’s a simple example:
I have the Moog Delay & MuRF. The MuRF has stereo outs. If I decide for tonality sake to run the MuRF before the Delay (as most people say run chorus, echoes, & delays toward the end of an effect chain), how do I run the MuRF outputs?
Will a patchbay help “accumulate” stereo channel ouputs from some pedals? Can anyone present a couple very simple yet effective, practical examples for me in the use of a patchbay?
TIA I’ll continue to try to educate myself.. maybe it just takes using one a few times. I dunno; I’m just confused right now how to use one. Sorry to jack the thread.
It basically makes it so you have less cables running all over in front of your gear. Without it you can run cables to and fro between the MFs, but it can get messy. The real benefit of a patch bay for me is with rack gear because you can bring all of the jacks from the back of the rack to the front without having to get behind it to switch cables. This doesn’t really apply to MFs so using a patch bay with them is only useful in making less spaghetti in front of your equipment. You can also make mults with the patch bay.
ezratrice, awesome setup man…I have a similar one with my voyager and moogerfoogers and roland chorus echo…except mine isn’t all rackmounted and it’s all disheveled and lying on the floor. Anyway, great setup. Ctrlshft’s looks great too, but it’s missing the tape delay (a must)!!
The mock-up looks great, I just started very something similar. 2 cabinets 20RU each, no Voyager thou, using a DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard.
1st cabinet will be 6xFoogers, 2xCP-251, 2xpatch bays. MF-102, MF-103, MF-104Z, MF-105B and patch bays are where it’s at now.
2nd cabinet will be patch bays, MAM RS-3 Resonator, MAM VF-11 Vocoder, Tonepad Boss CE-2 Chorus modded, Mobius Sequencer and Sherman Filterbank II rack. Have everything except the Sherman which will be my first purchase after the Fooger cabinet is finished.
My experience will the patch bay, using Behringer PX1000’s. Feedback, Time and Mix of the MF-104Z need dummy jacks. I cannot get the Rate, Mix, Env and LFO of the MF-105B to work in the patchbay with dummy plugs, haven’t tried TRS yet thou.
I think I recall the bit about the carrier on the RingMod. If you take the carrier I/O’s to a patch bay you need to connect them to keep the RingMod running as though it were standalone. If you break the carrier in/carrier out connection by inserting another signal, it works as it should.
Your patch bay is great and the color coding is a fantastic idea. How did you print your labels?
Would you please send me a copy of your excel patchbay layout?
I’d be happy to get you the excel sheet on Monday when I get back to town.
As far as the printing. I removed the faceplate the of Neutrik PB and scanned it. Then in Photoshop, I typed everything up to make sure it was aligned properly.
The key seems to be using a dummy plug with a resistor soldered between the Tip & Ring. It certainly helped in my setup.
Rather than repeating it here, I’d like to suggest that you check out my recent post on the “solution for patchbay problems with the 104 and Murf” thread.
I’ll continue to try to educate myself.. maybe it just takes using one a few times. I dunno; I’m just confused right now how to use one. Sorry to jack the thread.