Likely odd to ask a Moog forum for a comparison of a non-Moog product VS. a Moog product but in this case, I’m interested in pony’ing up the big cash required to buy an Analog delay and stumbled upon the Memory Lane.
Pro Guitar Shop had a GREAT demo of the Moog delay with an MXR phaser that is the delay video that I think would solve this mystery for you, but they have since moved it to private. I have written them requesting that they rerelease it to us. That is the video that I wet my whistle on prior to purchasing mine.
The main thing that I would be interested to know about the DML is how it functions with non guitar based instruments.
The modulation effect is nice, but Id rather have CV’s to do that exact same thing with a greater level of control.
Im waiting on the second half to load.
It seems to feedback a little more violently than the Moog, which I thought was pretty violent.
So far, I haven’t heard the slapback effect with high feedback, which is one thing that I love about the 104’s abillity to emulate space reverb.
As of right now I think that the 104 is a little more smooth and warm. This unit doesn’t sound bad at all but im mainly interested to know how it would handle really low Frequencies like the Voyager would dish out.
I also haven’t heard its longest time setting yet.
Im thinking that they no longer carry Moog gear because I didn’t find a single Moog product on their page, so that might be why they went private on their video. That is the video to see though.
So far I like the .8th note function. I really am beginning to question the frequency response of that diamond unit.
It goes into oscillation a bit more abruptly and the noise it makes is brighter and a bit more harsh than the 104. That coulde a desirable quality though to some.
I prefer the 104z slapback with a high feedback level. I think the 104 gives you more control over the feedback, though that switch on the diamond seems to make it MORE sensitive to going into oscillitory mode.
The modulation is pretty sweet, but if you plan on geting any more cv gear like the 251 you can have much more modulation possible, but its a bit harder to dial in.
Basically I think you are just going to have to decide, the price isn’t that much of a difference. Maybe you can try both pedals out or let your dealer know that you might be exchanging one for another and they might can work with you.
I personally think that I would end up longing for the Moog delay.
The 104 has the advantage of tweaking the input and output settings, has a dedicated feedback loop with the loop gain that is switchable to on and off and of corse the spillover mod.
Overall I think the sound of both units is a matter of subjectivity, but the features of the 104 are what seals the deal for me, the cv ins, the control over your tone, etc.
Yes, Price is similar. Still scouring for videos on 104z and finding some. Interestingly (or not), I ran out and bought a Fender '63 reissue Reverb unit… as always, I was lead in that direction after starting someplace completely different.
The Synth.com modules have been a curiosity of mine for a while, first I was interested in the Instrument module (before discovering that I could use the ENV follower on my Freq box); then the Tub reverb on the Synth.com was appealing (again, I was looking for modules not currently offered by Moog). After asking the question (you may have replied), a number of folks on the general forum recommended the Fender. And a friend of mine has been collecting Fender everything for years and years and once he said it was a good tube driven Reverb, that sealed it.
So to some extent, the Echo is not as pressing for me as it once was but I’ll shortly be making my “last” purchase for a long while and it’s going to include a set of T3’s and one more Fooger, so 104z is on my list.
Anybody else have any feedback for me (hahaha get it, feedback?!)
The CV control possibilities on the Moog make it stand out. The modulation effect possibilities are really powerful. For example, if you adjust the amplitude of a square wave LFO correctly, then you can get the delay signal to jump up and down an octave while playing. Very few other pieces of equipment can do that.
While I really really liked all the features on it, it doesn’t sound as good as the 104z to my ears. Didn’t regret it, but since then I’ve sold the DML2 as well.
Anyway I’d say go with the Moog, because even if you’re not modulating it with audio signals it still sounds like y’re lost at the bottom of a cave (and i think that’s good for some reason)
I haven’t checked out the DLM, but I have 2 of the Moog delays, so here’s my impression:
I love how tweakable they are both from the front panel and from attached CV pedals and the CP251’s.
I love how they sound… I’ve recorded with them, and they put whatever you put through them into such a special space… I wish I could describe it more scientifically, but they impart a warmth and sound quality that reminds me of synths on old 80’s recordings. Being played back on cassette. That’s a good thing, btw
Disadvantages? I wish they didn’t squash out all the high frequencies as much as they do sometimes. And of course they’re not cheap. Nonetheless, I loved their sound and functionality so much that I bought 2 of them so I could run them in stereo if I wanted. Obviously, that’s a MAJOR investment for a delay effect… but once I heard what they did to my LP on a record I did… I knew I had to have the option of stereo…
Certain BBD echos start considerably darker than others though, 104z is definitely a lot darker than others. One up for the DML2 is that you can tweak the echo sound from dark to bright very effectively, whereas the 104z echo will always be dark. Sounds mighty fine though!
With both bucket brigade devices and analog tape recording, the quality of the sound is very dependent on the clock or tape speed.
There’s a bit of math which I can’t quite remember, but the speed of recording determines the analog “sample rate”. The faster you go, the larger your audio bandwidth. That’s why pro reel to reel use[s/d] 30 inches per second to give >30kHz capability. Slow down your tape and the sound gets less bright as you compress the bandwidth.
Same thing with the 104 etc. The “long” setting halves the clock, resulting in a darker sound.
Although I swore and said “sample”, of course analog is not limited by Niquist Theorem (you can use the whole bandwidth safely without aliasing) and there aren’t steps in the recording process.
I bought a Maxon AD999 this week to double the delay power in my rig (I already have the MF-104Z but it’s too expensive to buy another one at the moment).
With a maximum delay time of 900 ms it isn’t bad at all, it has a nice feedback sound and is a bit brighter than the MF. Oh, and it costs about 2/3 less.
What about the headroom of your Maxon AD 999 ?
Is it as “noise free” as our beloved MF-104 is ?
And what about the input level ?
Can you feed it with any sound source ?
It hasn’t much headroom unfortunately.
The AD produces a lot less noise than the MF, even with the delay level cranked up to the max.
The input level is not that high but it’s high enough for me. I’ve got it hooked up on my A&H board so I can push it another 10 dB with the auxiliary output but the limited amount of headroom could cause some problems there. The trick is to boost the return channel on the board to even out the volumes.
You can feed it with any source I suppose but it was designed as a guitar pedal (obviously), I haven’t connected it directly to an instrument so I can’t tell how that would work out. I will give it a try soon.
Thanks for the reply.
I’m thinking about buying an AD999 myself.
Well, if the AD999 is less noisy than the MF (wich I find not noisy at all, as far as I’m concerned), then boosting the return channelI is not a problem for me.
About the input level : although I tend to use my delay units straight after synths outputs, the aux outputs are made for this purpose (feed fx units with the right level) ; or maybe I’d just have to turn down the synth output level.
I just tested it directly with a Little Phatty and the AD has more headroom than I thought it had. The input level is just right and the maximum delay level equals that perfectly.
I use the dry output channel to route the signal to the MF while the delayed output is routed to the board, that is why the output seems a lot lower than a direct connection I guess.
Well, the “not enough aux sends” problem appears frequently with people who like hardware synths and effects. Unfortunately few manufacturers build not-too-expensive 8/10/12 aux sends mixing desks…
