just starting out with synths

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
21

Well, assuming you go Moog, and of course you will, the options are endless. Some – but certainly not all – options might include…

Option 1:
Moog Minimoog Voyager: $3200.00
USB/Audio Interface: $150
Stand: $30
Cables: $15
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3495

Option 2:
Moog Little Phatty: $1285
DSI Prophet 08: $2000
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3610

Option 3:
Moog Little Phatty: $1285
Fantom X6 Workstation: $1500
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
Studio Monitors: $200
TOTAL: $3330


Option 4:
Moog Minimoog Voyager OS: $2400
Yamaha MM8 workstation: $900
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3645

And on and on… you can mix’n match. As much as I like analog polysynths like the DSI, I personally would go with #3 It is similar to what I have right now, and the Fantoms are the class of the ROMpler world. It gives you some very good acoustic sounds, a sequencer and a sampler, and excellent onboard effects. With a RAM upgrade, you can even use it as a rudimentary DAW with its onboard effects. And, I think good studio monitors are a must. IMO mixer + monitors is a much better solution than an amp for a keyboard rig.

And I’m assuming you’ll want to record. Most USB/Audio interfaces and USB mixers come bundled with DAW software.

Anyway… you can mix’n’match. These are just some ideas to show you hpw you can work with your budget.

22

Oh… and I think that Les Pauls are a bit overpraised. Now an ES-335… now we’re talking…

23

what about the synth.com equipment? it looks interesting…although I have no idea what most of it means. is adding that kind of stuff along with a “complete” unit like a voyager or a fantom redundant?

24

Synthesizers.com sells modules and complete modular synths. I’ve never played one – the only modular experience I have is a couple of hours on an ARP 2600 many years ago – but they seem to be very well thought of. Modulars are very interesting and flexible instruments. They typically do not have a hard-wired signal or control path, so you construct those by patching modules together in whatever combination strikes your fancy. That means that you can construct all kinds of weird and wonderful sounds. They are, however, extremely complex instruments. You don’t just strike a key and hear a sound, you have to patch modules together – with 1/4" patch cords - before it will make a sound, and it does not have patch [or, in Moogspeak, preset] memory, since each sound is a physical connection. That means that modulars have a fairly steep learning curve [I spent an hour making farting noises… unsatisfying farting noises… before I could get anything useable].

My opinion, which others might not share, is that if you’re just starting out, you should probably start with something like a Little Phatty or a Voyager. The Phatty makes it increadibly easy to make really cool sounds, and is probably one of the best synths to learn subtractive synthesis on [the Roland SH-201 is also a good synth to learn on, but it doesn’t sound anywhere near as good as the Phatty, and it’s hobbled by minimal user patch memory – 32 locations – and a really flimsy build].

If you’re interested in modulars, my suggestion is get something like the Phatty first and invest in a modular in a ywar or so. Just my opinion, YMMV.

25

Thanks…when looking at their equipment it seemed that it might be quite tedious to make changes to a sound (like an old phone switchboard operator). But with a moog…can I concoct just as unusual sounds? if i do find something I want to use, can I quickly save it to recall later?

26

Welly welly welly welly welly welly welly welly well,
Get some patch cords and give them a little bit of the in out in out.

Matt,
Now on the Fantom, I really did dial up some sines and some saws and the filter was just simply, lacking. Even the cutoff knob just didn’t do it for me. (Spaceballs reference) I love the synth though and I don’t really like the joystick thing ROland has going. I really prefer wheels. Not apples and oranges in my book, more like pyrite vs platinum.

Mallard,
If you are looking for sounds that noone has heard before then I hate to tell you this but All roads lead to modular.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with dotcom stuff. Now let me say this. You can start out on a modular synth and thats probably one of the hardest ways to learn, but once you do, youll look at a complete synth like the voyager as being severely limited. Modular synthesis requires several patchcords just to get a sound.
Example:
Keyboard gate output to Env Gen Input
Keyboard pitch output to Oscillator Freq Input
Oscillator Wave Output to Filter Audio Input.
Envelope Generator output to VCA INput
VCA Output to Speaker INput.

lol

But learning on a modular synth has the highest learning curve of all, it also will produce sounds that noone has ever done before provided that you have the modules to do it and the patchcords. THese are also very difficult to GIG with as they are usually huge monoloths they are generally the most expensive. But once you do get the hang of modular synthesis, every other synth in the world will be like luscious cream cheese on a hot bagel in the winter monday workday with a tall steaming hot cup of coffee. (Unless you are lactose intolerant, in which case it would just be really easy)


Studio 22
2895.00 (I think)

Well also, there were so many crappy records out there trying to cash in on the Moog phenom at the time. Lots of great records too.

Look I think heres a better offer

MiniMoog Voyager Select with Vx351 -$2999 at novamusik.com
get some walmart headphones for 20 dollars and they have good bass response.



Basically you need to get your butt to a music store and try a lot of synths. If you go with a fantom like the X6, keep in mind that it doesn’t have weighted keys. If you are interested in PIANO then you want some counterbalanced keys. I kind of think that is important for building finger dexterity and for keeping it in the tradition of piano heritage.

WHatever you do, post some pictures!

Sorry I coudln’t get together a better comprehensive post, its my anniversary and I don’t want to neglect my wife lol.

Eric




Go to
moogarchives.com

Click on instruments, modules, and then go through there and reac the Functional Application and the Musical Application of the various modules
902
904a
921
911

27

AHAHahhaa.. posting on his anniversary!

Where DOES his passions lie? :wink:

28

lolol

don’t go there lol :laughing:

I think my wife wants to destroy the Moog.

lol

Eric

29

Thanks for your input Erick, I surmised as such about the modular just looking at them. Since the last “magic” i uncovered was photography…modular seems to be like black&white/film/chemicals/paper approach while complete units are more like digital…less work but still great results but in the end you wont be able to get the most subtle nuances about it.

when it comes to piano sound, I wish I could get an acoustic because I have yet to feel a digital that is the same. however, my living area precludes me getting one so a digital stage is what I’ll do. I already found something with an acceptable action/sound/price (a roland FP7) but for synth sound i want to keep separate.

oh, and another thing…im absolutely brain dead when it comes to music. I couldnt compose or create a new tune if you had a gun to my head. (I do however wake up with some annoying song ive never heard before but ill leave dreams out of it) This is why I took on piano. Ive always liked the sound and Ive never known how to read music or play one. At 43 this is an exercise to stimulate neural pathways. how many times have you undertaken a task and when you succeed and get a little better you feel an endorphin kick off inside your brain somewhere and thought “hey, thats cool! im making progress”. thats what ive been going through with learning piano so far. I am an engineering software consultant…far cry from a musician.

30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3UrB_dex8&

About 2:20 into the video. A small sample of a modular sound. :mrgreen:

31

[Post deleted] :wink: :mrgreen: :neutral_face: :smiling_imp: :unamused: :smiling_imp: :cry: :imp: :blush: :stuck_out_tongue: :angry: :smiley: :slight_smile: :astonished: :frowning: :open_mouth: :confused: :sunglasses: :laughing: :exclamation: :question: :bulb: :arrow_right:

So THAT’s what they all look like when put on a post! Cool!

32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUmXFv7XwAE

33

Yours is better. :laughing:

34

yes but is it digital or analog?

i almost posted kraftwerks robots

35

Robots is a cool tune as well. It’s so hard to tell what’s analog and what isn’t on YouTube because the compression makes EVERYTHING sound digital. I’m guessing it’s digital, though. Because 90% of that genre is digital now.

36

I prefer to see it as an SUV vs. a Ferarri. A Ferarri will beat a Land Rover in a race on pavement any day of the week, but I know who I’d put my money on in Paris-Dakar. I think it’s a mistake trying to get a ROMpler like the Fantom to behave like an analog/subtractive synth. But it’s a great sampler and its PCM-additive features really are phenomenal when you dive into them. But yeah… the filter’s a bit thin and raw.

Don’t sell yourself short. There have been many, many great musicians and composers who have been trained as engineers. Modest Mussorgsky (Pictures at an Exhibition) was an engineer. In terms of more modern electronic music, Halim al Dabh and Iannis Xenakis were also engineers – the latter was also an architect. Xenakis, in fact, deployed his engineering knowledge in his music, developing a remarkable compositional theory based on stochastic math, and writing an immensely influential book entitled Formalized Music.

A modular might appeal to the engineer’s mind, since you are, in effect, constructing sound from the ground up. The truth is that most of us in the synthesis game will probably find our way to modulars. My own plan is to start building one when I have finished my dissertation and finally settle down in one place.

I really do suggest that you start with a non-modular synth, though. You have to walk before you can run.

37

They are all tools :slight_smile:. think of it as a carpenter has more than one saw. screw driver and hammer :slight_smile:. Of course it will take time to build a tool box up :slight_smile:. So finding a few multi purpose tools can be he best choice when you start and have maybe one specialty tool in the box. You can get by with what the romplers do, but of cource not as much as a “real” analog synth. Try running your other synths through a MF101 .

the “paddle” on the Rolands, Korgs… take some getting used to. I think i prefer the wheel also, but with some practice you can do some really cool expression things with the paddle/stick. the down side is not being able to leave the modulation at a set point then back to zero like you can with a wheel.

There are a lot of nice VA synths out there and some nice virtual synths. They may not be as good as the “real deal” vbut will allow you to get pretty darn close. I don 't own a copy but the Modular V software will let you explore a Modular moog for a very affordable price.

A few years ago I had my Model D in for some repair work, my tech has a large collection of virtual synths, he also has a very nice collection of analog and digital :slight_smile: . We played with the model D against on of the soft synths ( forget which now) and it was very close. the biggest difference was in the low end. the D had a fuller more organic low end then the Soft Synth. But it was close.

38

what is a “patch”? is it like a group of settings that are saved to create a specific sound? is this what people import?

for example, i fiddle with knobs and settings and find something that sounds really nice…do i save it as a patch that other people can upload?

39

The term patch goes back to the modular days when you had patch cables that were used to create sound patterns, or patches. Now, patches can be saved as MIDI data, and yes, can be shared. The preprogrammed settings in a modern Moog synth, or other synth for that matter, are commonly referred to as patches. :mrgreen: I think when I get my modular I’ll name it Patches. :laughing:

40

Yeah a modular synth is very much like an SLR in a whole darkroom. You have your enlargers, trays, chemicals papers and different techniques to create different portraits, whereas something like the Voyager would be like one of those point and click cameras with a printer dock.

Have you thought about getting one of those inexpensive microcassette recorders so you can hum your ideas into them. I have one of those and I use it ocassionally. I come up with my best Ideas when it is at the most inopportune times.

If you are thinking about stimulating neural pathways, I hope this isnt some effort to stave off dementia lol. THey say that picking up new skills is the way to do exactly that though. But thinking about the prices of modular synths, some would say your dementia is already setting in lol.


WHatever you end up doing Im sure it will provide you with years of those endorphine kicks. Synthesis is very much like that. Just when you think you really know some stuff about synthesis (especially the Moog stuff) you realize that theres dualing functions so some of the Modules and you have to scratch your head and hit the books again.


THe best resources for learning about synthesis I would advise you to go to Moogarchives.com and read that information. Learn about the history of Moog synths and youll gravitate to the modular synths. Then Id make a post on here when you are ready about some vintage synth manual resources like the Thom Rhea manuals written for some of the vintage synths (Mini Micro, Etc) and those are valuable resources.

Be sure and take some pics f your gear when you get ready!

Eric