Hammond tonewheel organ (midi?)

Anyone heard of an original hammond tonewheel converted to trigger using midi or CV even?
Can anyone explain how the amp works, i.e. are all of the pickups summed and all of the different colored wires correspond to each pickup? In other words does each tonewheel have its own audio path.

I had a brainstorm about getting a tonewheel organ to output each pickup or wheel to a VCA and using it for a remote drone box controlled by midi. If I could convert the keyboard to midi or have each pickup on one wire (at I assume mic or instrument level) or both, I could chop my M3 down to just the pickup tonewheel housing.

Just something to ponder:
Many Hammonds have multiple switches under each key.
Some for each drawbar, afaik.
There may also be additional contacts for percussion.

So it may not be quite so simple to do the circuitry to key a Hammond.
Regardless, it’s a good idea and I wish you success.

There is a contact under each key for each drawbar. There fore, a buss bar for each drawbar. How the audio path works from the tone wheel to the big transformer and then through the vibrato scanner to the preamps is a mystery to me. It would appear you would need 10 VCA’s per key.

And just to add; I’ve got an M3 and Percussion was an option, at least on mine it only works monophonicly like a legato Env gen (if a key is depressed it will not ‘fire’).

Based on seeing others play B3s it works differently but I could be wrong; never had the pleasure. If you already have the M3 rock it out; if you were just thinking of picking one up, do it; they are practically given away these days but very B3 like; you would be surprised at the number of commercial hits recorded on an M3 (Green Onions, Boston’s first album).

Very expensive proposition and VCAs wouldn’t be the best solution because they won’t replicate the “key click” transient that is a crucial part of the B-3 sound.

Not to mention the variations between individual organs.

Can’t find the link, but someone was doing this. They pulled generators from M or L series and key’ed them via midi.

However, as Kevin stated, there are multiple buss bars under each key going to each drawbar and one for percussion keying. This creates variable pressure keying since pressing the key slightly only actuates the upper buss bar/draw bar. While you could map velocity to these, I think you really be looking at a labor of love.

Also, the percussion circuit is “monophonic”. (Actaully, the keying circuit from the ARP OMNI is similar. I think they called it “One Shot”.) Basically, all keys must be released for the next key to trigger the percussion.

(monophonic percussion) Interesting. I’ll have to watch that Rachel Flowers videos again. I though that maybe the B3 was this way or that Keith had a tricked out model. I know that I cracked the tube associated with the circuit at one point and percussion stopped working (since repaired); not sure how difficult it would be to mod it or how practical it would be. (I’m a mere amateur organist, just ask my neighbors. Each spring I awaken the neighborhood animals with a stirring rendition of “Take me out to the ball game”. My Leslie has a 20 foot cable and I put it in the center of my driveway)

Not actually monophonic. More of a single trigger.
You can hit a chord and all notes in the chord will trigger the percussion for each note. The percussion will not retrigger until all notes have been released (on the upper manual). If you play staccato, each note will trigger the circuit. If you play legato, only the first note will trigger the circuit.

I just about fell off my chair at work with laughter!

Fwiw, I had the same idea a long time ago.
I took my L-102 tone wheels out and planned to make a computer controller using an Apple II+.
MIDI hadn’t yet been invented.

But as I got deeper into things, I realized I’d have to make some huge matrix of switching circuits.
I started to draw things out on paper and I think I had chosen 4066 cmos switches, but it all got out of hand.
It would have taken 2 4066s and a transistor for every note, plus a computer interface.

I’d never touched a B3 then and didn’t know if all Hammonds had all those contacts, but mine did.
Thus my “as far as I know” response above.
Thanks to all for confirming my 30 year old memories. :slight_smile:

I recall also abandoning the idea because it became obvious, that unlike like most Hammond emulators today, the keyboard was actually sort of velocity sensitive.
The drawbar tones were keyed sequentially as the key was pressed.

So, it’s a lot of work.
As said in Godfather 2: “Difficult, but not impossible.”

Keith Emerson used a C3 on the Black Moon tour that had Midi. Will Alexander his tech at the time wasn’t crazy about it. I do not know who did the conversion, But Emerson does use Goff Professional in Connecticut for all his Hammond work. :wink: http://www.popeye-x.com/tech/willalexander.htm

MIDI out wouldn’t be too difficult.
MIDI in is another story altogether. :slight_smile:

The Hammond BA had an Aeolian player piano mated to a Hammond organ, either model A or B. Never seen the schematic for one of these. I do know that the keys did not depress when the player was running.

Update: check out the link with pics. The BA use pneumatic actuators that pulled down the contact arm under the key. Gotta love old school!

http://www.organhouse.com/aeolian_hammond_player.htm

Amazing!

I wonder if when a roll plays too many notes at a time, it drops pressure and notes?

Very Cool MC, I never saw one of those before, Thanks. :smiley:

I’ve never seen a player organ before. Those electro-mechanical organs are a nightmare to repair, with parts getting harder and harder to find. Must be worse for one of those. :open_mouth:

Not to mention the weight. A big console Hammond is heavy enough, the added weight of the player mechanism had to be ridiculous!

Just noticed this thread while searching for something else. Here’s how a Hammond works.

There are a bunch of “tone wheels” driven by a single motor on a complex gear train designed to approximate a 12 tone equal tempered scale (but it’s not quite exact due to the integer math of gear teeth – coming up with this was the real miracle of the Hammond organ). Every harmonic the Hammond makes comes from one of these wheels. The wheels are bumpy around their circumference and signals are picked up by a small, guitar-like magnetic pickup above each one. (The number of them varies on different Hammond models. I think 96 tone wheels is a typical example). Those pickups output high impedance (so very low voltage and current) signals just like an electric guitar does. They are not amplified yet.

Each key has 9 contacts corresponding to the 9 drawbars. These contact 9 “bus bars” beneath the key that I’ll get back to in a moment. Each of the tonewheels is wired to the appropriate contact on all keys that need that harmonic. So the same tonewheel gets used by many different keys in different bus bar positions. For one key it a particluar tonewheel might be wired to the fundamental, so it’s on contact/bus bar 3 (for 8’). For a key an octave down, that same tonewheel would get wired to contact 4 (for 4’) as it’s now the 2nd harmonic. Etc.

When you hit a key, all 9 contacts close. (Though not all at the same time. This is why Hammonds have a kind of reverse touch sensitivity, where the click is more prominent the slower the velocity the key is hit with. In fact, you can slowly lower a Hammond key with all the drawbars pulled out, and distinctly hear each harmonic come on one at a time, in no particular order.) But you only hear all 9 harmonics if all 9 drawbars are pulled out. Those drawbars are volume controls (again, completely passive like an electric guitar) for each of the bus-bars, which together carry the 9 signals from the combination of all the depressed keys. The drawbars mix how much of each bus bar’s signal we hear. Again, entirely passively.

Only then does this high impedance signal go to the pre-amplifier input. Some people, like Keyboard Mag’s editor Steve Fortner, will tell you there’s hundreds of volts under a Hammond keyboard on the bus bars and the key click comes from some kind of electrical arcing, which is of course completely ludicrous. There are high voltages in a Hammond, but only inside the amplifier chassis. If you touch the bus bars of a running Hammond all you’ll get is a really loud hum (like you touched the tip of a guitar cable going into an amp).

So the drawbars and keyboard together as a mixing matrix that selects amounts of the 96 wheels, which are all running, all the time. (And always locked in the exact same phase relationship to each other. Another important and unique aspect of the Hammond sound and part of why a Leslie sounds good on it, but bad on sampled or synthesized Hammonds that don’t model the locked phase.)

The percussion feature steals the 9th bus bar/drawbar and uses it instead for a trigger for the envelope of the percussion (which yes, is polyphonic, but single triggered). You can’t play the top (1’) harmonic and use percussion at the same time. (Apparently some people modify the percussion to use drawbar 8 (1 1/3’) instead of 9 as it’s less useful than the “whistle” at 1’.

Most of that design is lifted straight from a classic pipe organ, just with air pressure translated to voltage. But again, it was the fudged math to approximate the correct musical pitches with whole number ratios (because you can’t have a fractional gear tooth or tonewheel bump) that was the major technological innovation. Laurens Hammond, a complete non-musician, was also looking for another place to sell his company’s AC motors that synchronized to the line frequency. Previously all they made were clocks but music was deemed another application that could use a motor with accurate timing (at least as accurate as the generators at the power plant).

As for MIDI modding a Hammond for a MIDI out, you’d have to put new switches under the keys and run those to a MIDI interface. The existing key contacts are all tied up (and aren’t set up at two different levels to provide you with velocity timing) and can’t be made to do double duty as audio signal is actually running through them. To modify it with a MIDI in would be MUCH more work – you’d need to replace all 122 key contacts with relays controlled by a processor!