EMF effects on health with prolonged use

Hello - I thoroughly enjoy my El-M, and it gets played a lot. I do a one man band for a living, and play 8 hour shifts, which is unusual, of course. My concern is the effects of electromagnetic fields generated at such close proximity to the body. You can feel the heat generated by this, on the back of the guitar. My concern is that I have been suddenly experiencing pain in my front right side where the heat of the guitar rests. Not to be an alarmist, but these are new uncharted waters we Moog guitarists are in the middle of, so I thought I would bring this up to see if anyone else is experiencing this sort of health effect. I have no health insurance, and so going to the doctor is unfortunately a last resort for me, but this only started after a few weeks with the guitar. In the meantime, I may start playing my Godin w/sustainer again, to see if the pain subsides. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

I’d be more concerned about a) your posture (which might change when you play the Godin, be observant)
and b) your diet. Check your fiber intake.

I think you’re doing the right thing not using it for a while to see what happens.

Have you also tried using Google to see what comes up about this - whether there is any reliable medical knowledge?

Also, could it be the problem isn’t electromagnetic, but simply your body involuntarily backing off from the heat? Normally heat relaxes muscles, but if there’s a heat source your body experiences as a problem then you may have localised muscle tension where the heat source is. I’m not a medical person, but I’d guess a doctor would be able to identify the muscles involved and tell whether the effect is localised to tissue or occurs along any large muscles in the area.

I seriously seriously seriously doubt that the pickups are going to be hazardous to your health.

If you have any legit concerns, look at the power (other than VO power lol) that is driving ANY potential RF, and then look at the frequency and go from there in your research of it’s affects on the human body.

There can be anything in there that is causing heat…like that huge PCB. Remember that energy can dissipate as heat, so any heat you might experience could be totally unrelated to any potential RF generation.


There is a video on youtube of some guy in Asheville, at the Moog factory, trying to demonstrate to Jason Daniello the so called energy field of the guitar using DOWSING RODS. :laughing:

I think that video has since ben pulled from youtube because I can’t seem to find it. It was called Moog Guitar Clinic as a quick forum search revealed.

Sweep, on a side note… when I found that post I saw your comment about dowsing. Look at what James Randi has to say about dowsing.
It is completely and utterly a sham to think that is even remotely legitimate or respectable in any sence of the words.

If you don’t believe me, there is currently a Million Dollar Challenge to anyone who can do this or any other forms of quackery:
http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

I don’t necessarily regard that video as having any substance as far as health issues are concerned (I simply don’t know for sure. Do you?)

But I seem to recall the guy noticing an adjustment the guitarist made to the pickups with the dowsing rods, not visually, which would mean his rods were picking up things he didn’t have visual clues for. It would be nice to see that video again to check that, if whoever first put it on YouTube could do that again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMtuWymUzz4

Dowsing is absolute quackery.

There are a lot of people making waves (no pun intended) about the dangers of RF exposure concerning cell phone usage.
Moog would have to provide the specs on the magnetic field generation, and also for their theremins, which I think the affects on the body are negligible.

I would email them with such concerns.

If there was any RF generation, there would surely be some FCC guidelines and applicable warning inserts, and at the very least, if there was a concern (which i strongly doubt that there is a legitimate danger here) it could be shielded to protect you.

I agree with cliffman about posture and would add carpel tunnel syndrome as a far greater threat to your overall well being than those pickups.


As far as heat goes, what is the temperature of the guitar? I have a feeling that it is not the type of heat that will relax muscles (160˚F moist heat). That kind of heat is superficial, and wouldn’t cause any type of pain to muscles. A lot of people are finding that having their hot laptops on their laps for prolonged periods is “cooking” their skin, but again that is superficial heat.

It could be that your concerns are either caused by something unrelated, or psychosomatic in nature. At any rate, consult your physician!

Eric

Thanks very much to all who replied.

All the while, billions of neutrinos are passing through your body at this very moment.

In other news: we will all die.

Numerous studies have produced contradictory results, yet some experts are convinced that the threat is real.

Cancer has been found to be hereditary in laboratory rats. And in unrelated news, microwave ovens have been found to contain no radiation at all.

I don’t know who started this rumor but Moog needs to respond to this before James Randi needs to get involved loll.

If you are really worried about it, take the guitar to someone in the local Amateur Radio community (maybe someone at the city Office of Emergency Management or an Amateur who has an antenna array) and let someone with an RF Field Detector measure it.

It would be interesting to see how many watts the Guitar put out IF it actually puts out RF. Cellphones are generally about .5w.


Read this for more information about RF safety
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/rf-faqs.html#Q9

I’m not a big alarmist on the effects of RF radiation, though I do stay away from cell phones because I do feel a slight ‘offness’ in myself when I use them. Many of the younger generation may not be sensitive to this, just because they grew up using them. I also stay away from earbuds because the ElectroMagnetic drivers in them are just too close to the brain. I have a set of earbuds that send the sound via 3 inches of air tube to get around this.

Great, now you view me as some NewAge alarmist whacko… :slight_smile: Let’s just say that I’d be concerned enough to do further research. Trusting the FCC is one of the last things I’d ever do though.

There are plenty of people who could give you an RF reading on your guitar and then tell you if that may be harmful. My partner is an acupuncturist and she has one of these meters that she uses from time to time. Here is a link to the meter that she has. Dr. Craig Sommers (who sells them) might be open to questions if you emailed him directly.

http://www.rawfoodsbible.com/index.php?page=misc/emfservices

Also another friend of mine’s father has done extensive research on EMF and their effects. Here’s an article that might lead you to even more questions…

http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/wireless-safety/electropollution

If you are experiencing pain in the area where the guitar rests, I would seriously look into it. And let the rest of us know what you uncover.

Stephen




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Stephen,
With all due respect you did a pretty nice job of trying to convince us that you aren’t a new age whacko, but you weren’t sucessful.
A few points:

1.You are claiming to have special powers that noone else has…which is the ability to feel the “offness” of trace amounts of RF. This is absurd.

This is in regards to Amateur Radio operation (Technician Class) which is around 45-200 watts. Cell phones barely use half a watt. Unless you are on a cell tower hanging right in front of a Super High Frequency, high powered GHz Beam antenna, you won’t feel anything.

Acupuncture is is not a legitimate form of medicine. Like dowsing, psychics, mediums, ghosts, and alien abductions, it is quackery. Please don’t bother defending your partner’s occupation to me. You won’t convince me. No disrespect to her.


Why wouldn’t you trust the FCC to set up acceptable MPE (maximum permissable exposure) limits?

The article you referenced quoted only uses suppositions and conjecture. The Author has a gut instinct about it but no evidence. He even tried to use his sick son (mercury toxicity) to validate his faith in RF being the cause of his “internal dysfunction”. He also talked about SAR rates…those are rates that are not necessarily device specific, but PEOPLE SPECIFIC. Different people, wearing different clothing, of different masses, experiencing radiation of different power and frequency and exposure durations will have a different SAR. He recommended getting an “electropollution detector”. This article is catering to people who are already paranoid about it in the first place. Much like those websites who market gas masks and duct tape to people paranoid about terrorist attacks.


Please don’t come here propogating nonsense and hysteria.





ALL THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO PUT THIS TO REST IS FOR SOMEONE FROM MOOG TO COMMENT ON THE NATURE OF THE VO PICKUPS. DO THEY GENERATE RF OR NOT?

EricK, we all know that illnesses are caused by body thetans, and the OP’s body thetans are centralized around the Moog Guitar. It’s all in L Ron Hubbard’s book, Dianetics. If you REALLY want to heal yourself, the book of Dianetics is a must-read. :wink:

I take it from your comment that you don’t feel any effects from cell phone usage? That’s totally cool.

Cell phones barely use half a watt. Unless you are on a cell tower hanging right in front of a Super High Frequency, high powered GHz Beam antenna, you won’t feel anything.

In short, there is both RF and EMF to consider when talking about cell phone usage.

Acupuncture is not a legitimate form of medicine. Like dowsing, psychics, mediums, ghosts, and alien abductions, it is quackery. Please don’t bother defending your partner’s occupation to me. You won’t convince me. No disrespect to her.

If there was no disrespect intended, why the condescending tone? You may see things in a different way than the next person. That’s totally cool. Does it make you more correct?

Why wouldn’t you trust the FCC to set up acceptable MPE (maximum permissible exposure) limits?

What with big money purchasing lobbyists these days, why would anyone just assume that a government oversight organization be free from political special interests?

The article you referenced quoted only uses suppositions and conjecture. The Author has a gut instinct about it but no evidence. He even tried to use his sick son (mercury toxicity) to validate his faith in RF being the cause of his “internal dysfunction”.

Well his other son happens to be a friend of mine. So let’s just say that I have more information about that particular event than the casual reader. His son (my friend) is also an acupuncturist, which may or may not be mitigated by the fact that he’s also a Naturopath. I suppose it depends on whether or not you consider Naturopathy a form of ‘quackery’ or not. Hmmm, my spell check doesn’t include ‘Naturopath’ so it’s immediately suspect…

Please don’t come here propagating nonsense and hysteria.

Okay.

Please respect that other people have ways of looking at the world that are different than yours.

When I play music with my band, there are times that we really ‘lift off’ and ‘enter another world’. Without drugs even. More quackery, eh? Or perhaps you might have a similar experience being a musician? It can’t be scientifically proven… :slight_smile:

Stephen




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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy It does exist, and it IS a valid form of treatment for many things. I’ve used it myself to increase my liver function after nearly destroying my liver completely. Mostly sober for a year now…with the exception of New Year’s. :blush:

However, I should be dead by now if RF/EMF causes severe sickness. I spent the better part of highschool building unregulated Jacob’s Ladders, poorly tuned Tesla coils, even took a spool of copper house wire and plugged it into the wall! Dad was only upset that the TV was affected during the football game, as I was directly below the family room. Not to mention countless hours spent talking to various people on my cell phone. Am I saying it’s okay to move under high voltage power lines? I wouldn’t do it, but people have, and they’ve survived. Once you start worrying about something, it WILL kill you. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. MHO. TIFWIW. :slight_smile:

BTW, do you have any idea of the RF/EMF coming out of a tube style TV? Or did you know a 50" plasma TV puts out TWICE the EMF of a 36" tube television, which in turn puts out about 1000 times as much EMF as standard active guitar pickups? The difference is in the frequencies these devices run on. Not how much power they use. Case in point, a 50" plasma tv can heat up the area surrounding it, because of its high output.

A CRT, even a big one like a 36", will not get hot like a plasma TV. It puts out LESS RF and EMF than a plasma, and does so at a much lower, almost audible, frequency. Yet how many people have plasmas as opposed to CRT’s? I guess that means that severe illnesses will skyrocket in five years, right? :wink:

The thing is, no one can really know yet. A lot of this stuff is new enough that we don’t have enough data. Though it reminds me of the cigarette companies in total denial of any ill health effects up until relatively recently. And yet they knew full well. Nowadays we take it as scientific fact that smoking is not so good for your health. My father has been smoking for the past 60 years. That doesn’t mean that he should be dead by now, just that his health isn’t going to be as optimal as if he never smoked.

For the OP who has been experiencing pain, he has gotten several responses, all of which might or might not be helpful. He wasn’t asking for any definitive objective scientific data, just possible areas to look at. Which is what he got. If reducing the usage of the Moog guitar and playing the Godin Sustainiac alleviates his pain, we don’t really need to know whether it was caused by posture, RF, EMF, or spending too much time on the Internet. However, if it is related to RF or EMF, it would be good to know. Even to get scientific corroboration. I’m not interested in hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, neither am I a fan of ‘following the crowd’ when shouted down. I am a fan of options and sifting through them carefully.

Stephen




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Indeed. I like to keep an open mind as well. After all, the only difference between science and magic is that science has been explained using data. Before there was science, there was magic…because people didn’t know the science behind things…like fire, lightning, and whatnot. Later, magic became science, which was in turned used to make magic tricks, and stuff…but I digress. :laughing: