Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

The Moog Forum Subsequent 37 & Subsequent 25
1

I followed the instructions to a tee and after the first attempt, found my 37 stuck with the “blank screen and LEDs on” mentioned in the instructions. So, I tried to start at “Panel firmware update” and go from there. I noticed that when sending this (the erase) SysEx via c6, it’s incredibly brief. I verified that the Sub37 was selected in Config dialog. Also, the MIDI LED only ‘blips’ once when I send it – no constant blinking. If I try to send the panel SysEx the same behavior occurs, the only exception being that it takes about a minute via c6 and I can watch the progress bar indicate transmission (again making sure the 37 is selected in the configuration of c6).

The 37 doesn’t reboot or anything - just stays at a blank screen, LEDs on, and arp light going at about 1Hz. I tried restarting my Mac and beginning at the first step, but no joy…

Any ideas? The instructions don’t mention it, but are you supposed to redial the Fine Tune and Cutoff CCW and hold pitch up and cycle power on the 37 before the panel erase and panel loading steps?

If it helps with the diagnosis, when I send the panel Sysex, the MIDI stays red (no blinking) and the arp light is off, and when it finishes, MIDI blinks red and arp blinks, too…

(I’m really not trying to be hypercritical here, but the whole firmware update process is sketchy, IMHO. I could understand sticking with SysEx for legacy reasons. But, given that it can’t even be sent over DIN, why not make it more drag-and-drop via USB?)

2

I have not updated yet, even though I need the updated MIDI filtering feature–I was waiting to see if others has issues, and as I feared, someone does. Hopefully there is a resolution that does not involve sending the unit back to the factory.

The update process does seem messy…it involves using an app from a competing synth company, an app which is not from an Apple registered developer, so the security setting (in Mavericks) must be changed to allow it to run. Not a big deal but just one more twist in the procedure. Just reading all of the instructions made me feel uneasy–this process seems way off the beaten path by modern standards.

Hopefully the update process will be more straightforward and reliable in the future, preferably with a native app made specifically for firmware updates.

Has anyone by chance used Logic Pro X or the Snoize SysEx Librarian to update the firmware?

3

I updated mine last night and no problem. I used C6. No, you dont have to hold up the pitch bend wheel for the panel. Try redoing the main firmware- it probably did successfully load.

4

Same thing happened to me and I panicked a little bit. Same as you, blank screen and LEDs were lit. I just stopped and went through everything again. Notice when you select “send” and you can tell if it’s working or not. Also the 37’s midi button will blink red as it’s receiving. I was just patient and went through it again and it worked. Load the files in the order the instructions say to.

5

I also followed the directions to a T and fortunately had no issues. One additional step I did - in C6, I "Close"d each file after it was loaded / sent to the Sub 37. I noticed that loading a new file did not seem to automatically close the previous one, so did that just to be sure only one file was sent for each step.

6

I think I tried it this way, too, but I’ll give it another go…

7

If you want to go through this together over the phone we can… You can email me at joehoward123@yahoo.com and I will give you my number.

8

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate that. One question before I have to go bugging you or anyone else via a phone call - when you did the “panel erase”, was it instantaneous? It takes almost no time at all, compared to sending the other two files. Intuitively, this makes sense to me if all it’s doing is deleting - just wanted to confirm.

I noticed that after I do the last step of sending the panel file, that both MIDI and arp blink for a few minutes, then the MIDI LED goes to solid amber while the arp keeps blinking…

9

Yes, the panel erase is almost instant.

If you want to do this tonight we should do it sooner than later. Feel free to email me and we can go through all the steps together.

10

Hey - thanks, but don’t worry about it…it’s not responding to anything now. C6 only recognizes it intermittently, and I can no longer get the MIDI to flash red when I send the panel SysEx, which according to the update instructions, means the 37 is not receiving data. :cry:

Before I try to “fix” it even more, I’ll just wait until tomorrow and see if Moog weigh in on this. I’m getting bleary-eyed anyway.

11

Hi joe! I wouldn’t worry just yet. To begin with you don’t need to use C6; you can use any program that sends sysex. Sysex Librarian for OSX or MIDI-OX for Windows are both fine.

Next, I’d suggest re-doing the main firmware update before trying the panel again.
For the main firmware update, you power on the unit with Fine Tune and Filter Cutoff pots at minimum, and the Pitch Bend wheel held all the way up while you switch on the power. This puts the unit into bootloader mode and readies it for the main firmware update file.

Next (after powering on in bootloader mode) open your sysex sending software and select the Sub 37 as your MIDI output device. You mentioned it sometimes not being recognized, but it should be if you power up in bootloader mode, connect USB, and then open the software.

Once you get this far, send the main firmware sysex file. You should see the red MIDI LED blinking on and off the whole time the file is being transferred. One possible advantage of Sysex Librarian is an accurate progress bar that definitely tells you if the file is still sending or has finished.

After the main firmware file has definitely finished sending, the unit should be in a state where you can send the panel erase, then the panel firmware.

Yes the panel erase is nearly instant; all you should see is a tiny blip or “hitch” in the blinking of the Arpeggiator Rate LED. I would recommend to wait 5 seconds after sending the panel erase, before sending the panel firmware. In a normal update, there is a message on the LCD for that 5 second period which tells you to wait until the screen goes blank, and then send the panel update file.
(edit: I experimented more with this today, and in the case where the panel is already blank/all LEDs lit, I don’t think you actually have to wait between sending the erase and sending the panel firmware. Seemed to work OK sending them one right after the other)

So, finally, send the panel update file. Again you should see the red MIDI LED blinking on and off the whole time the file is being sent. If the pattern of the blinking changes, so that both the Arpeggiator LED and the MIDI LED are blinking in sync (both on/off at exactly the same time) this indicates a transfer error… if this or anything else unexpected happens please email me directly (my name at moogmusic.com). Otherwise, once the panel firmware file is finished sending this time, the unit should reboot to the new firmware and there will be joy throughout the land.

Please let me/us know how it goes. I’m very sorry for the trouble!

We’ll be sure to put a more friendly firmware-update interface into the Sub37 Editor, which is currently in development.

All the best,

Amos

12

I bricked mine last night too :frowning: I re-did the whole process as described by Amos to no avail. It boots with a blank screen, all lights on, Arp light flashing. I’ve tried adding various delay ticks to the upload to no avail.

Any other clue to try?

Thanks,

Mike

13

This is so strange that people are having issues with this, I was able to update just fine. I hate to ask since it was stated in the instructions but, you all are connecting the Sub 37 to your computers directly with USB… NOT using a USB Hub, yes? It’s usually some little thing like that which people forget… just trying to throw things out there to see if it helps.

14

Since April I’ve probably updated 20+ times with no issues.

One thought: After you’ve sent each of the files, the Sub 37 reboots itself.

This will make the SysEx librarian (whichever one you’re using) lose track of the USB connection.

That means that, after each of those SysEx files are sent, you will probably have to get the librarian to connect to “Moog Sub 37” again as a destination.

That would explain why you’re no longer seeing the red MIDI LED flashing.

15

That’s interesting Dan. The only time the machine rebooted for me was after the main sysex file. The panel ones did not reboot my machine. I wonder if I have corrupt sysex files?

  • Using iMac
  • C6
  • USB directly into iMac (no hub)
  • Sub 37 is recognized in the config of C6

I will try to re-download and do the whole shebang tonight…

16

It’s not really a reboot, but I couldn’t think of a better word at that moment.
Let’s just say it loses the USB connection after some of those steps.
So always check after each send that your librarian is still connected to the Sub 37 via USB.

I’d bet against it, especially since they were zipped.

Start from FINE TUNE and CUTOFF all the way counterclockwise and PITCH all the way up, then power on.

Wait a bit. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn’t, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Then, send the Main file.

Wait a bit after the Display screen is normal again. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn’t, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Now send the Panel Erase file.

Wait a bit. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again.

Send the Panel file.

Wait a bit after the LEDs are normal again. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn’t, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Send the Presets file. As soon as those are sent you can send the Tunings file.

Note: Your Sub 37 will be left in the Slendro tuning scale.

Either:

  1. Go to GLOBAL, go into the TUNING SCALES sub menu, and scroll all the way to the left to see 12 T Equal Temp.

or

  1. Go to GLOBAL, go into the INIT SETTINGS >>> sub menu, and hold SAVE for 5 seconds.
17

Hmmm, yeah, something’s funky. I just re-downloaded and the main sysex is bigger than the panel sysex which is NOT true of the one I have at home :frowning: I’m thinking bad sysex files, maybe unzipping on a Mac is hosing it. Never had that before, even updated my Sub Phatty successfully a couple of times.

EDIT we cross posted :slight_smile: I will indeed try that tonight, though I believe I was doing just that last night. Will report back, and thanks Dan!

18

I never done a Sub 37 update on anything but a Mac (Mac mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook).

19

It worked ok on this end, upgraded last night. Mac mini 2012, C6, usb direct.

20

The new 1.0.2 update didn’t work for me either. I’m using the OS version… I’m using the C6 software for the update… The red Midi light lit up on the Sub37 and seemed to work for the main firmware update (main.syx). I selected the Sub 37 from the Config window after each of the three steps as mentioned in earlier posts… When I did the Panel Erase update, I saw an error message on the LCD: “ERROR: Proc. Buff” When I then try and send the panel.syx file, I see it loading in the C6 software but there is no red Midi light showing up on the Sub 37… I am unable to play or do anything on the Sub 37… It’s locked in this mode… I called Moog this morning and left a message. I’m guessing they are busy helping others with this and other issues… Hope to hear back from them soon! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Rod