Is it possible to record midi from the moog touch me pad?
I am using Cubase, but if anyone has gotten it to record data with anything else I would like to know...
Thanks!
Count
MOOG VOYAGER *Touch me Pad* & Midi
Assuming you already have Voyager OS 2.1 or higher installed, you have to configure the Voyager Touch Screen Destination to send the desired MIDI controller data. On the Voyager go to EDIT/TS Destinations and make sure that TS X, Y, A and G are set to transmit MIDI. (You may not care about TS A & G - in that case leave setting to OFF)
If these are set correctly and Cubase still isn't recording, check to see if Cubase is filtering controller data. I use Cubase SE, and the MIDI filter is located under Preferences. Not sure about other versions of Cubase, but you should have no trouble finding it.
If all seems correct and you still can't record the Voyager's Touch Screen, use a MIDI monitor program to check if the controller data is being received. If you are a Mac user, you can grab a copy of MIDI Monitor from www.snoize.com. If a PC user, I'm sure that a Google search will provide you a lead for a similar program.
Hope this helps.
-G
If these are set correctly and Cubase still isn't recording, check to see if Cubase is filtering controller data. I use Cubase SE, and the MIDI filter is located under Preferences. Not sure about other versions of Cubase, but you should have no trouble finding it.
If all seems correct and you still can't record the Voyager's Touch Screen, use a MIDI monitor program to check if the controller data is being received. If you are a Mac user, you can grab a copy of MIDI Monitor from www.snoize.com. If a PC user, I'm sure that a Google search will provide you a lead for a similar program.
Hope this helps.
-G
Ok.. So I found the Midi settings for the touch pad, and they are off..
So I go to turn them to channel 1.. then I go to the next one.. I go to all 3 and set them to channel 1..
Nothing happens when I go to record..
Then I go back and look at the channel settings and its set to off..
Anyone know why the settings jump back to off on my moog?
Also the preset change midi is off by 1. In cubase I will have recorded preset 5, but on the moog it will jump to 6...
Very fustrating..
I will check out the midi filter settings tonight though..
So I go to turn them to channel 1.. then I go to the next one.. I go to all 3 and set them to channel 1..
Nothing happens when I go to record..
Then I go back and look at the channel settings and its set to off..
Anyone know why the settings jump back to off on my moog?
Also the preset change midi is off by 1. In cubase I will have recorded preset 5, but on the moog it will jump to 6...
Very fustrating..
I will check out the midi filter settings tonight though..
The MIDI Touch Surface settings are not MIDI channels. These settings select MIDI continuous controllers (CC). Once set, the touch pad will transmit the assigned CC's over MIDI. You can assign these as follows:
For TS X, Y and A, the CC settings are OFF, 1 - 31
For TS G, the CC settings are OFF, 64 - 127
These settings are assigned for each preset individually, so once you specify the CC numbers you must write the preset or you will lose them when you switch presets. This is probably why you see them revert back to their initial settings - you aren't saving your edits.
For TS X, Y and A, the CC settings are OFF, 1 - 31
For TS G, the CC settings are OFF, 64 - 127
These settings are assigned for each preset individually, so once you specify the CC numbers you must write the preset or you will lose them when you switch presets. This is probably why you see them revert back to their initial settings - you aren't saving your edits.
Ok..
So I am home sitting in front of my moog with my manual.
I set the TS X 1
TS Y 2
TS A 3
TS GATE 88
Now cubase records my fingers twirling(default filter touchpad settings).. I hear it.. when I play back, but it sounds muted and it doesn't seem to have the same range as when I first play it live.. like when I bring my finger to the top right, it gets high freq, but the midi playback doesn't sound the same? I added the 88 controller to the midi list of controllers in cubase..
Greg do you know why this is happening? I check my filter settings for the midi, and filter was set off for the control.
Hmmm
So I am home sitting in front of my moog with my manual.
I set the TS X 1
TS Y 2
TS A 3
TS GATE 88
Now cubase records my fingers twirling(default filter touchpad settings).. I hear it.. when I play back, but it sounds muted and it doesn't seem to have the same range as when I first play it live.. like when I bring my finger to the top right, it gets high freq, but the midi playback doesn't sound the same? I added the 88 controller to the midi list of controllers in cubase..
Greg do you know why this is happening? I check my filter settings for the midi, and filter was set off for the control.
Hmmm
Countlove -
I'm observing the same thing on my Vger. This is actually the first time I've attempted to record Touch Pad data, and I haven't had the time to 'get to the bottom of it'.
I need to check the thread on the MSB/LSB issue that was suggested by Monads. The recorded touchpad data seems to be only 7 bits (values go from 0-127). Assuming this is the LSB, and the MSB isn't getting transmitted, this would explain the different playback response we're getting.
Greg
I'm observing the same thing on my Vger. This is actually the first time I've attempted to record Touch Pad data, and I haven't had the time to 'get to the bottom of it'.
I need to check the thread on the MSB/LSB issue that was suggested by Monads. The recorded touchpad data seems to be only 7 bits (values go from 0-127). Assuming this is the LSB, and the MSB isn't getting transmitted, this would explain the different playback response we're getting.
Greg
Check out this thread:
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... e6b97ff789
and then this one for further on LSB/MSB,
http://moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1193
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... e6b97ff789
and then this one for further on LSB/MSB,
http://moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1193
Thanks for the links, monads. It's really helped me to understand what's going on.
For the benefit all who would like to know more, I'm offering a bit of background on Voyager's Touch Surface and the issue raised here:
The Voyager's Touch Surface is actually two controllers in one; the first is a dedicated programmable controller for the Voyager, and the second is as a general purpose MIDI controller. Either function can be used singly, or they can be used together.
When the Touch Surface (TS) is used as a programmable controller, it sends internal control signals to the selected Voyager parameter destination(s). You must select the destination of each of the four TS outputs (X, Y, A & G). This is done on the Voyager's Edit Page (5.1, TS Destinations). You must also specify the direction of the control signal (normal/inverted) and the amount. You can turn off the controller (so that is has no effect on the sound) by setting all TS amounts to 0. This information is stored with the preset, so every preset can have different TS assignments.
When the TS is used as a general purpose MIDI controller, it transmits MIDI Continuous Controller (CC) messages. You must select the CC message for each of the TS outputs (X, Y, A & G). Again, this is adjusted on the TS Destinations page. The selection of available CC messages is somewhat limited, but nevertheless useful and effective for controlling an external MIDI device. You can turn off the controller (so that no MIDI data is sent) by setting all MIDI CC's to OFF. This information is also stored with the preset, and every preset can have different MIDI CC assignments.
Now, suppose we are going to record a Voyager performance that includes TS control movements, and when we play back the sequence we want it to sound exactly like what we played on the Voyager. Since we know the TS can be used both as a dedicated programmable controller AND a general purpose MIDI controller, we need to program both functions to control the same Voyager parameters . In other words, if TS-X is programmed to adjust the Voyager's Filter Cutoff internally, the MIDI CC for TS-X must be programmed to match. If it doesn't, the sequenced CC data will not control the filter cutoff, it will control something else in the Voyager, and the playback won't be the same.
But there's a complication here, and it's a 'showstopper':
When Moog Music released the Voyager 2.0 OS Update, they implemented full MIDI control for every knob, rotary and toggle switch on the Voyager front panel (excluding the fine tuning and headphone volume controls). This meant that all front panel controls would transmit and receive MIDI CC data. The assignments of CC messages for each parameter are shown on page 5 & 6 of the Voyager 2.0 Update document. Taking a look at these pages, you can see that most of the Voyager's controls specify two CC messages (two bytes of CC data), not just one. This is done to provide more resolution than can be expressed in a single byte. A single byte can express 256 data values, which sounds like a lot, but it isn't nearly enough to precisely adjust oscillator frequencies or to prevent the dreaded zipper noise (and MIDI CC's use only 7 of the 8 bits in a byte, meaning that only 128 values are possible for a single byte, which makes things worse for precise control). Two data bytes can potentially express 16,384 values, providing for much more resolution and finer control. MIDI allows for the creation of high resolution control messages by combining two CC messages, one byte each. The two CC messages are defined as the Most Significant Byte (MSB) and Least Significant Byte (LSB). The Voyager assigns various unique combinations of MSB and LSB CC messages to each control. Adjusting any one of the Voyager's panel controls sends the corresponding MSB and LSB CC messages to the MIDI output, and these messages can be easily viewed in a MIDI sequencing program.
So what is the problem when recording Touch Surface data?
The problem is that the Touch Surface can only be programmed to transmit one CC message for each of its outputs (X, Y, A & G), not the two the Voyager needs to see for proper control. By way of example, the Voyager assigns CC#19 (MSB) and CC#51 (LSB) to specify the filter cutoff frequency. The TS can only be programmed to transmit one message (CC#19), so half of the information the Voyager needs to control filter cutoff via MIDI is missing. This is why a sequenced Voyager performance that includes TS control movements sounds different when played back - the TS cannot be programmed to transmit all of the data required to accurately record the performance in the first place.
What's the solution? As far as I know, there's currently no work-around for the missing CC byte. The problem will have to be solved in a Voyager OS update, and for that we can only wait patiently.
Hope this helps.
For the benefit all who would like to know more, I'm offering a bit of background on Voyager's Touch Surface and the issue raised here:
The Voyager's Touch Surface is actually two controllers in one; the first is a dedicated programmable controller for the Voyager, and the second is as a general purpose MIDI controller. Either function can be used singly, or they can be used together.
When the Touch Surface (TS) is used as a programmable controller, it sends internal control signals to the selected Voyager parameter destination(s). You must select the destination of each of the four TS outputs (X, Y, A & G). This is done on the Voyager's Edit Page (5.1, TS Destinations). You must also specify the direction of the control signal (normal/inverted) and the amount. You can turn off the controller (so that is has no effect on the sound) by setting all TS amounts to 0. This information is stored with the preset, so every preset can have different TS assignments.
When the TS is used as a general purpose MIDI controller, it transmits MIDI Continuous Controller (CC) messages. You must select the CC message for each of the TS outputs (X, Y, A & G). Again, this is adjusted on the TS Destinations page. The selection of available CC messages is somewhat limited, but nevertheless useful and effective for controlling an external MIDI device. You can turn off the controller (so that no MIDI data is sent) by setting all MIDI CC's to OFF. This information is also stored with the preset, and every preset can have different MIDI CC assignments.
Now, suppose we are going to record a Voyager performance that includes TS control movements, and when we play back the sequence we want it to sound exactly like what we played on the Voyager. Since we know the TS can be used both as a dedicated programmable controller AND a general purpose MIDI controller, we need to program both functions to control the same Voyager parameters . In other words, if TS-X is programmed to adjust the Voyager's Filter Cutoff internally, the MIDI CC for TS-X must be programmed to match. If it doesn't, the sequenced CC data will not control the filter cutoff, it will control something else in the Voyager, and the playback won't be the same.
But there's a complication here, and it's a 'showstopper':
When Moog Music released the Voyager 2.0 OS Update, they implemented full MIDI control for every knob, rotary and toggle switch on the Voyager front panel (excluding the fine tuning and headphone volume controls). This meant that all front panel controls would transmit and receive MIDI CC data. The assignments of CC messages for each parameter are shown on page 5 & 6 of the Voyager 2.0 Update document. Taking a look at these pages, you can see that most of the Voyager's controls specify two CC messages (two bytes of CC data), not just one. This is done to provide more resolution than can be expressed in a single byte. A single byte can express 256 data values, which sounds like a lot, but it isn't nearly enough to precisely adjust oscillator frequencies or to prevent the dreaded zipper noise (and MIDI CC's use only 7 of the 8 bits in a byte, meaning that only 128 values are possible for a single byte, which makes things worse for precise control). Two data bytes can potentially express 16,384 values, providing for much more resolution and finer control. MIDI allows for the creation of high resolution control messages by combining two CC messages, one byte each. The two CC messages are defined as the Most Significant Byte (MSB) and Least Significant Byte (LSB). The Voyager assigns various unique combinations of MSB and LSB CC messages to each control. Adjusting any one of the Voyager's panel controls sends the corresponding MSB and LSB CC messages to the MIDI output, and these messages can be easily viewed in a MIDI sequencing program.
So what is the problem when recording Touch Surface data?
The problem is that the Touch Surface can only be programmed to transmit one CC message for each of its outputs (X, Y, A & G), not the two the Voyager needs to see for proper control. By way of example, the Voyager assigns CC#19 (MSB) and CC#51 (LSB) to specify the filter cutoff frequency. The TS can only be programmed to transmit one message (CC#19), so half of the information the Voyager needs to control filter cutoff via MIDI is missing. This is why a sequenced Voyager performance that includes TS control movements sounds different when played back - the TS cannot be programmed to transmit all of the data required to accurately record the performance in the first place.
What's the solution? As far as I know, there's currently no work-around for the missing CC byte. The problem will have to be solved in a Voyager OS update, and for that we can only wait patiently.
Hope this helps.