Moog Music Forum

I'm totally getting into the voyager modular capabilities. The only analog experience I have is from my roland mc202, but the mc202 is pretty limited. Reading up on modulars and getting into them in a big way. Was wondering how the voyager w/vx351 compared to an ARP 2600? Anyone own/heard both? Opinions on which have better features. I know there is a possibility of future expander modules for the voyager. Trying to figure which will suit me better in the long run. Thanks for info in advance.

Pelican

Firstly, although people call both the 2600 and the Voyager "semi-modular" there is a huge difference between the two units.

The Voyager is a mono, hardwired-routing, performance synthesizer with the ability to patch out at verious stages (but not all). The modules included within the Voyager are based on a tried and tested routing structure . . . LFO, Voice mod, Osc, mixer, Filter, Envelopes etc, etc.

Compare this to a modular system and you will find that the Voyager has half the amount of modules . . . with regards the 2600, this was one of the first modular systems that had all the patch ins and outs "normalized", so that it was possible to not have to patch it. It was renamed as "semi-modular" but this is not strictly true as it is possible to patch out at every stage . . . what you can't do, also like the Voyager is add more modules (people used to just buy another 2600).

The external 351 and 251 goes some way in allowing you to patch the Voyager into external equipment but verious important Ins and outs are missing - If that's what you are looking for then you'll need a modular (or a true semi-modular).

With regards sound the two couldn't be further away . . . the Voyager is more like a modern digital synth in that you can instantly call up programs and every knob does what it should - it excels at strong basses and searing leads. For me it's too clean and behaved . . . i like to battle with my analog synths a little.

The ARP, like all modulars needs to be mastered . . turn it on and it will take some time before you get what you want out of it . . . the sliders don't all react like you think they should and the sound is often weird, thin and not very musical . . . but with a little learning you'll get interesting sounds out of it which are practically impossible with a stock Voyager (the 2600 has a sine wave, reverb, preamp audio booster, ring modulator!).

Sticking audio through the 2600 is a completely different experience and many people just use it as an effect generator - try this on the Voyager and straight away you have a gate problem as there are no envelope followers.

Then there's the moog sound . . . which ultimatley is why people buy a Voyager . . . if you know what you are looking for you can buy a 2600 with a moog style ladder filter . . . i haven't heard this version 2600 so i can't say whether it would sound moogish?

Mal

You can add an envelope follower, audio preamp, ring mod, and sine wave to your Voyager with an MF101 and 102

thanks for the info. It's a tough choice, but being that I only have the money for one- and that this is a moog forum I'm going to pick up the voyager next week. I kinda want the arp more, but there are too many negative factors involved- 1... inflated price went for $1000 ten years ago, now $3-4000 2... I have nowhere near me that has them for me to do a sound comparison- I live in NC about 2 hrs away from Moog music, and my nearest moog dealer 'no longer carries the voyager in stock' though might be able to arrange for an owner to bring one to the shop for me to check out. When I told them that was cool I never heard anything back from them. If I can't even hear a voyager I'd never be able to find an arp near by 3...reliability- I don't know where to get one reliably, and could I trust the condition/seller as I know nothing about vintage synth electronics- could easily get screwed.

Even though the voyager was my second pick I'm sure, after all the reviews I've read, name credibility, info from you fine people of the Moog Forum, I will be very pleased with the voyager. I even found a store that is going to give me a free vx351 or moogerfooger ring mod. NICE!!!

, but I will get the 2600 one day even if it takes years of searching.

pelican

Just a couple of points, although someone here has said you can add the verious elements that the ARP has over the Voyager by buying the moogerfooger pedal range there is a huge difference on how these things can be wired to the Voyager.

The moogerfoogers have very limited control voltage ins and outs making them really purely audio effectors . . . Ok so this does mean that they must include an envelope follower but you should check first to see if you can get a voltage out to trigger a gate in on the Voyager.

Another example . . . it maybe possible to get a moogerfooger to create a sine wave (?!) but you will not be able to patch this into the Voyager and play it as you would an Oscilator sine wave (also, you would need three sine wave sources to create an equivelant 3 osc patch).

I have a Voyager SE with both the 351 and 251 and a MuRF pedal and although i can patch them up the facility is pretty limited . . . not at all like routing on a modular system.

With regards the price of an ARP 2600 you have to put into perspective that these machines have become quite collectable and often a dealer will restore or service the unit and add the costs to the final figure. I guarentee that no Voyager in 20 years time will be as collectable as an ARP is now (if moog had stuck to the original plan of only producing 100 ignature models there may have been a collectable Voyager).

At the end of the day you have to go for what you can easily access but in my mind the 2600 is a more varied sounding unit.

Mal

My vote is for the ARP. That is a 100% purely nasty, grimey beautiful sounding synth. The voyager is nice too, clean though, real clean. Like it was said before, you will never get the sound from the filters of the ARP, via the Voyager.
Have you looked into the Arp Odyssey?

mee3d wrote: I guarentee that no Voyager in 20 years time will be as collectable as an ARP is now (if moog had stuck to the original plan of only producing 100 ignature models there may have been a collectable Voyager).

In 20yrs Dr. Moog will be retired or worse gone. Voyagers will still be around and collectible. Especially SE. I'm not sure you can compare the two since they're fundamentally different instruments. There are also 3 different versions of the 2600 and 3 different keyboard versions. Some versions also have different ladder filters. I like the orange version.

I believe a good portion the arps becoming famous had to do with their marketing strategy. They gave these things away for free if you let them use you in their marketing material. This is why you see all that old promo material with famous musicians.

If you're looking for a modern day arp 2600 you could try the S1 MkII http://www.cwejman.com/english/index3.html or try looking at the M5 by http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com/ I'm really waiting for the M5. These are no arps, but If I'm going to drop close $4000 on a fully restored 2600 (including keyboard) I'd rather have a modern day analog synth. And if money isn't a concern...then get all three!

monads

With regards Voyagers being collectable in twenty years I disagree. Firstly the build quality and moden componentry is such that I reckon a higher proportion of Voyagers will be still functioning in 20 years compared with the 2600 in the same life sycle.

Secondly, this is an "in production" unit . . . given that the original minimoog sold well into 12.000 units in it's 10 year run and the modern moog company has no plans at the moment to replace the Voyager for some time it might be realistic to consider the same amount of Voyagers around.

Yes, after the Voyager ceases production, units will change hands on the second-hand market but nothing like the figures that 2600, memorymoogs, jupiter 8s, PPGs, Sync IIs, Synthex's or Chromas can go for.

I have no idea how many 2600 were made but i do know that there are a lot either dead and broken up for spares (just ask RLMusic) or stuffed in corners of studios half working . . . . the original Blue Meanies are pretty much long gone and the grey fascias were notoriously badly built.

Didn't you buy an ARP from RLMusic, then paid the huge UK price, and then had it shipped back to the States? Got to be something in it!!

Mal

mee3d

so what your saying is the degradation of the 2600 components has led or contributed to the so called collectors factor of the instrument? I can see this, as it would drive up the prices for near mint condition 2600s. I just thought they were more sought after because of sounds/patchability. The rare factor would just be a bonus if you know what I mean.

I did purchase an orange Odyssey (MkIII) from RLMusic. It’s in excellent condition. It didn’t have the original slider knobs on it (came with the colored ones you see on the MkI or MkII). I replaced these so it looks good as new. One thing you can’t tell from all the pictures floating around is the MkIII has leather on the side panels. This can easily get messed up if you’re not careful. It did cost me though (around $2300 including shipping because of the poor exchange rates, and then again it’s in very good condition). How does it sound? You can get some good sounds out of it (leads, effects, etc). But, because my unit was built with the original 12dB filter, it’s not as fat as you might expect. Build quality? Well, it does sound/feel like from the 70’s. Would I get rid of it? Not till I die. Would I buy another Arp? Probably not because of the build quality.

I was close to picking up an orange 2600. But I got deterred because of the above factor coming off the Odyssey and I just felt I might be able to do more with a modern day analog. Plus different 2600s have different filter ladder incorporations which makes a big difference. It’s just a personal choice. If someone was trying to get into semi-modular I would recommend more of a modern day instrument. These vintage synths are more delicate. I would only look to vintage if I couldn’t coax the sounds out of a new synth.

And although I've been dreaming of a modern day 2600 for some time, AP shows no sign of returning so the scene. I'm banking on the M5

Yes because any working 2600 is either a huge bunus or has gone through some extensive restoration . . . like that of your Odyssey (which therefore makes it very collectable).

if I can remember correctly there were more Odysseys made then minimoogs but because of ARP's notoriously bad over-engineering and build quality (Quadra anyone?) the minimoog has stood the test of time better and in some ways is less collectable, as working Odysseys are rarer.

I think you are right in that it is safer and wiser to buy modular synths new now . . . especially when there is more choice now then there was back then . . . and the Macbeth M5 does look very good, almost a direct cross between a moog and a 2600.

Mal

pelican wrote:Reading up on modulars and getting into them in a big way. Was wondering how the voyager w/vx351 compared to an ARP 2600?

my first 'real' synth was a 2600. i used it live and in studio from about 78 till 85. it was cranky. i got good results from it, but it was hard work, especially when compared to the minimoog. on the other hand it had a lot of flexibility that both the original mini and current mini lack - if i wanted, i could peel one VCO out of the arp and create a crude _discrete_ 'second' voice using the ringmod as a VCA.

in general the arp felt like it had too much of the wrong stuff - three mod busses per VCO, for example, instead of more multipurpose mixers which could be used with more flexibility. a 'clock', but with no VC? no external switch?

further, the 2600 has a rather checkered history, covered by vail in the vintage synths book - several 'lawsuit driven' variations, some good, some bad. cheap components. 'shortcut' circuit design in preamps, one of which causes a pretty disconcerting [and potentially speaker damaging] 'thump' sound when you gate the thing's VCA or use tight envelope settings. fix it, you say? sure. better be prepared to chuck serious money at ciricco or some other genius arp tech. i put about $500 in mods into mine before finally selling it...

lastly, you're buying a 2600 that's probably approaching thirty years old. god knows where it's been, or how close to dead it is - things like electrolytic capacitors die. stuff ages, sometimes not so gracefully. circuits are more primitive, more noisy than modern ones.

ultimately, though, i feel it's an aesthetic decision: i did a gig with a guy using a 2600 recently and was enthralled both by its primitive sound and 'mil-spec' look. i like the fact that a red button on the face plate can trigger envelope generators: Very Scientific.

it's got crappy speakers you can annoy your cat with. etc...

note, however, that i currently own a Vger, 251 and 351. i _used_ to own a 2600, and could have easily bought another if i chose.

to these [not exactly golden] ears, arp has 'a' sound, but not 'the' sound. gotta getta moog 4 that, imvho. :) btw, a 101 patched into a 2600 ain't the same thing, but perhaps i can go into that on a later post - i did a 'shootout' a while back...

lx

With regards Pelicans original request, I too - like Newname - have a Vger now, and have since passed along my 2600. In fact, I've also passed along a fair cross-section (at least 30 models) of vintage analogue synths since the new era of analogue. And for the same primary reasons. Essentially, I was sitting on synths that were testing the limits of their design lifespans. I enjoyed the time and music I wrought from them, and reinvested in modern analogue with a warranty and a different and just as appreciable sound. To satisfy my modular analogue hankerings, I took Roger Arricks www.synthesizers.com system into the fold and have enjoyed a well built, well backed-up modern modular that I am quite proud of (as he should be as well).

Many options are out there, both new and old that will fill all of your synthesis requirements. I recommend to you that if your needs are of a general sort, go new. If you specifically need an older synth for factual or obsessive reasons, then by all means, seek your prey. For me, the only way I ever bought older synths was by the local bargain finder, and I continue to test my luck in this way, but my hard-earned cash goes on the safe bet.


Kelly.