Moog Music Forum

Recently I've programmed a Taurus-like Bass sound on the Voyager. I've carefully reproduced the same patch on my Alesis Ion.

In this audio sample, I manually play a short sequence of notes on one synth, then the same thing on the other synth. At the end I play one note on one synth, then the same note on the other.

Can you tell which synth is playing when?

Synths used: Alesis Ion and Moog Voyager EB.

This audio sample has been recorded live into Audition in one shot with no effects or anything else, just the two synths.

http://FileHost.JustFreeSpace.Com/977TaurusPatchIV.wav

The answer will be sent via PM for those who respond.

Is the second one the Ion?

i had a really hard time hearing the difference between the two. I noticed a very slight difference, but not enough to distinguish which is which. plus i bombed the last test that psy did.

Alesis Ion is a cool synth.
people that don't like it, have never tried it out.

my 2 cent.

psmoog wrote:i had a really hard time hearing the difference between the two. I noticed a very slight difference, but not enough to distinguish which is which. plus i bombed the last test that psy did.

LOL! Don't get discouraged by your earlier results. You have 1 chance in 2 to get it right again.

But seriously, can you tell us in your own words what seemed different about the two?

I can tell you that looking at their waveforms on an oscilloscope, they look quite different. The Moog having that distinctive curved sawtooth that is hard to replicate on the Ion (but not impossible with meticulous tweaking).

And I want to state that my goal is not to put down analog synths, far from it! Otherwise I would not have bought a Moog in the first place. It's just to demonstrate that a digital VA, well designed and properly programmed can co-exist happily with real analog giants like the Voyager.

Anyway, I'll send you the answer via PM if you promise not to tell.

djghostdogg wrote:Alesis Ion is a cool synth.
people that don't like it, have never tried it out.

I owned one for 4 years and hated the controls and menu system. I could never get used to the endless rotary encoders. I liked the sound of it though.

alainhubert - you've done an excellent job of making both sound the same. It's very hard to pick out much of a difference between the two. On the second one, I hear some subtle phase-cancellation on one of the notes, which makes me think it might be the ION. But really, they are so close it could go either way.

In my experience, the difference between analog and digital is much more noticeable when you start sending lots of modulation around to different destinations, especially with things like audio-rate modulation sent to the filter cutoff. And high filter resonance never sounds quite the same on a VA either.

There are a lot of comparisons on this page:
http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0404/404022wp.html

In particular on that page, listen to the "Creamware Prodyssey vs. Arp Odyssey" example. On the first couple of sounds they are very similar. On the third sound (the long, slow pitch from high to low) you can hear a lot of difference in the character of the filter.

soundxplorer wrote:...In my experience, the difference between analog and digital is much more noticeable when you start sending lots of modulation around to different destinations, especially with things like audio-rate modulation sent to the filter cutoff. And high filter resonance never sounds quite the same on a VA either.

There are a lot of comparisons on this page:
http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0404/404022wp.html

In particular on that page, listen to the "Creamware Prodyssey vs. Arp Odyssey" example. On the first couple of sounds they are very similar. On the third sound (the long, slow pitch from high to low) you can hear a lot of difference in the character of the filter.

I totally agree with you that Creamware didn't do their homework on that one.

In the patch that I made, there isn't much modulation that's true. Only a keyboard follow and slow envelope on the filter cutoff. Things would be different (and harder) on a complicated FM, or heavily modulated patch obviously. The goal was to demonstrate that a good VA can have a warm and rich timbre, and not be limited to sounding cold and digital. And, admittedly, it was more work programming that patch on the Ion than on the Moog to get the same results.

Great comment SoundXplorer, thanks!

On the sequence I'd say the second is the Ion, because the weird phase on the one note and the boomy mid on the other note.
On the single tone at the end I'd say the second is the Moog because it sounds more lively when the tone decays.
Yep, it's a hard one.
If I just take a guess, and follow my instinct I'd say the second is the Moog.

The first one is the Moog.

Pretty damn close though, took me a few replays to hear the difference.

I auditioned an Ion, pretty good sounding VA.

Something on-topic/off-topic...

...take me, for instance: after 2 weeks spent with Arturia Analog Factory (quite good sounding TOY) I got Origin. Since that time can not stop to play on it. What's a sound! See no reason to even talk about sound diffs here - no diffs, even greater (!). I'm skilled with how to play, measure and listen.

...and I can play Minimoog (as well as Memorymoog/CS80 (very important)/ARP) in polyphonic (only the point here is PolyAT keyb (VAX77 is...where? ASR-10?). Going to try Haken Continuum Fingerboard, but it isn't a keyboard a bit.

I will be with my Voyager anyway because of: (my lovely old) knobs I know, balanced patch cords I made and familiar with, overdrive things... And will keep Origin in my studio setup. It becomes as a major one for ... analog sounds!!! (Digital/plastic sounds are coming from LogicPro/Blofeld/Karma - enough).

P.S. That Alesis is (was) cheap unit.

P.P.S. So, next for Moog is...? They can not go digital (or can lake as Apple with processors/iPhone rev, not sure).


Not sure you'll get me right, but anyway...
Yours,

Igor

http://gallery.me.com/igor.alekseev#100 ... saic&sel=0

Igor wrote:
...P.S. That Alesis is (was) cheap unit...

If by cheap you meant inexpensive, agreed. Although its DSP driven sound engine is far from cheap sounding.

Anyway, besides the still informative comment you made, I'm curious as to why you wouldn't take the challenge of answering the test? If the Ion is a cheap unit, you, whom I quote:"I'm skilled with how to play, measure and listen.", should easily tell the synths apart?

Did you even listen to sample? If so, just tell us what synth played when please...




До скорого.

to me:
first sound is ion, second one is moog: sounds smoother, more intense and with a bit more beef in the low mid range.

If by cheap you meant inexpensive, agreed. Although its DSP driven sound engine is far from cheap sounding.

I tried it [Ion] and found it cheap in overall, sorry. But this is my personal, probably wrong impression.

...I'm curious as to why you wouldn't take the challenge of answering the test? If the Ion is a cheap unit, you, whom I quote:"I'm skilled with how to play, measure and listen.", should easily tell the synths apart?

Found "comparison between analog and digital" label - this is why I'm here, with off-topic Origin-oriented message a bit. Do not want to be tested by anybody btw

Did you even listen to sample? If so, just tell us what synth played when please...

Yes, I have listen. Found both samples good sounding. Hope it's O.K. to "all of us"?

До скорого.

Ага. Привет участникам соревнований!

I'm going to hijack your thread...

About a year ago I did an experiment where I wrote a song and recorded it twice. Once using all softsynths and once by multi-tracking my Andromeda and Voyager. The only way I was able to tell which one was the analog version was because the one done with softsynths had a slight glitch at the start of the recording.

I recorded and mixed digitally in Logic. I've always wondered if the two recordings would have sounded as similar if they had been recorded to tape.

Igor wrote: ...Do not want to be tested by anybody btw

Did you even listen to sample? If so, just tell us what synth played when please...

Yes, I have listen. Found both samples good sounding. Hope it's O.K. to "all of us"?

До скорого.

Ага. Привет участникам соревнований!

Hahaha! I understand. I was just trying to coax you to answer. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. If everyone would think alike, there wouldn't be any interesting discussions.

Oh, and I cheated. I don't write or speak Russian, I used Google's language tools to translate my writing...

большое спасибо.