Moog Music Forum

I have had a Freqbox for about a week not but today was the first day I was able to do some experimentation with it. Rather than having it track my guitar, which it certainly can do, I had it track my voice. It did but I can't say I have the kind of vocal control that Tara Busch has in here post on You Tube.

I think the Freqbox has some very serious uses. One of the most singnificant I wan't to test this week by sidechainging and envelope follow to change frequency and using some persucssive instruments. I want to see how I can shape its response. With carefully use, this box can do some really interesting experimental things.

I was listening to some George Crumb earlier tonight, highly recommended:

http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html

What is interesting about Crumb is that he uses a great many percussive instruments but also non standard uses of traditional instruments many of which chnage the natural pitch envelope of the instrument or make it more atonal. It seems to be that Crumb would have liked the Freqbox.

I think that many think of the Freqbox as being used in genres like hip hop or techno or some of the other related genres but to be, a more classical approach to this box would be more effective. I always look to classical music, exspecially that of the early 20th century, as more of a guide than the pop genres of today which often make electronic tools something cliches and cheap. The Freqbox is worthy of serious experimental use and hopefully I am up to the task of finding those uses.

Crumb is perhaps a good place to start.

i don't understand buchla's pricing... or how that relates to george crumb

I studied Black Angels a bunch in my college years... great composer!

matt the fiddler wrote:i don't understand buchla's pricing... or how that relates to george crumb

Sorry, that was a mispost. I was posting on the Buchla controller in another board. This should have been a link to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5OsuzSXU-k

Crumb, an American composer (20th century) was famous for his use of extended instruments (techniques outside of the standard usage).

speaking of dark angels



have you seen the score?

Crumb's score? No but I would like to have it. I have many of the scores of 20th century composers. There are some great ideas in these. I wish I could say that I get my inspiration from pop composers but sadly much of what I see out there is re-hashed garbage that never made it when it first came out. Bands claim to be different and are not. No one wants to take chances anymore and do something different. It's what I love about the 20th century classical composers. Not so much the serial composers (not a fan of serialism) but the ones that did not adhere strickly to serialism or the past.

Unformtuntely, the digitial synthesizers are full of cliched presets. I like mine and having a whole symphony at my fingertips is not a bad thing. But it seems to be the real sonic frontiers are in analogue. When I start plugging my foogers into things, I have only a general idea of what is going to happen but there is a certain untamed aspect of foogers that I really love. I love that turning the resonance know of the LPF sends it into self osciillation, I love the quirky sounds I get from using a microphone with it and sending differerent sounds through it.

Digital synths are in a way much more flexible. But in a way, the samples they use are limted. You can buy libraries that are more expansive but you are stuck with the samples. There is a wonderful world of sound out there that just needs to be opened up but it takes a boldness to explore it.

I'm a guitarist, I think my favorite thing about the freq box is it's freak-ish nature. It's not easily tamed without some kind of damper in front and behind it, like a compressor and a filter - or really precise picking of the guitar strings. I think that's what sets it apart from everything else is the fact that what you put into it changes what you get out...

Quite outright, I'm not using it for techno, I'm using it as a guitar synth for music of a hard rock based nature. My hands control the ADSR (strings) on the fly, and with the right notes you get some amazing overtones that I have never heard anything else emphasize this well. I really would say that it did complete the whole 'modular' appeal of the foogers to a limited degree of course.

I really would like to have a more mellow VCO sound from it on hand, but I think I can still find it using the matrix of filter pedals that I have, and careful input control. And I'm always looking for a Pitch to CV tracking unit to use the filter and ring mod oscillators for this.

I like it because it has such an immediate responce, if you send a kick drum and a hi hat to it they are going to sound totally different because of their frequencies AND their volumes. THe Freqbox is lightning fast so as long as you aren't approaching polyphony then its still pretty precise.
I have a demo where I ran a drum machine through my Fooger Rig

Reverbnation.com/rhythmicondemos
"Droppin a dub"

Eric

Alien8 wrote:I'm a guitarist, I think my favorite thing about the freq box is it's freak-ish nature. It's not easily tamed without some kind of damper in front and behind it, like a compressor and a filter - or really precise picking of the guitar strings. I think that's what sets it apart from everything else is the fact that what you put into it changes what you get out...

Quite outright, I'm not using it for techno, I'm using it as a guitar synth for music of a hard rock based nature. My hands control the ADSR (strings) on the fly, and with the right notes you get some amazing overtones that I have never heard anything else emphasize this well. I really would say that it did complete the whole 'modular' appeal of the foogers to a limited degree of course.

I really would like to have a more mellow VCO sound from it on hand, but I think I can still find it using the matrix of filter pedals that I have, and careful input control. And I'm always looking for a Pitch to CV tracking unit to use the filter and ring mod oscillators for this.

Yes, I can see where the freqbox would enhance guitar harmonics. At the right mix level it might be transparent and the listener would be wondering how you get that type of distortion when in fact, its not distoration at all but an oscillator.

I would think the LPF could filter the oscillator sound or for that matter a wah or equalizer.

On the issue of pitch to CV. I forget which post but this issue has been discussed here. For current products you would probably need to go with a modular component if you have a modular. I don't know of any stomp boxes that do pitch to CV although I would love to have a fooger with a frequency follower.

The freqbox is doing a hard sync not pitch to CV which is why its so quick, in fact, instananiious.

EricK wrote:I like it because it has such an immediate responce, if you send a kick drum and a hi hat to it they are going to sound totally different because of their frequencies AND their volumes. THe Freqbox is lightning fast so as long as you aren't approaching polyphony then its still pretty precise.
I have a demo where I ran a drum machine through my Fooger Rig

Reverbnation.com/rhythmicondemos
"Droppin a dub"

Eric

Yes, I noticed this. I was using a mic with it the other day and of course, it will track vocals and also do some interesting things with different vocalization but it even hitting a glass with water in it will generate a pitch. I want to do some experiments tonight with bowed instruments from Tassman and String Studio (Applied Acoustic Systems).

I also want to see what it does with noise. I may use it for my current project and see what it does with trains and helicopter sounds.

I also have my CP-251, just came in yesterday. I unpacked it but have not done anything with it yet. I am very impressed happy with the possiblities. I started to do some CV rooting yesterday and realized that a multi would help. I also can't wait to see what I can do with the lag processor.

My favorite aspect of the CP Freq combination (I got both units together, it was so neat to open two boxes...it was like christmas) is that With another synth like the Voyager or anything with an audio input, its just like having a second seperate synth to mess around with. You can take your Voyager or your theremin and do your thing there and then bring up the VOlume of the Freq (like on a mixer or something else) and your CP is sending a S&H to the Freq or another Lagged LFO to the Freq, so basically it allows you to accompany yourself. Its really a cool thing, I thnk thats screaming for a filter of some kind.

My Video "Complex Waveform with MoogerFoogers" on youtube is ALL Freqbox and just a Lag Processor with LFO's from every source that I could muster. I turned this into a song that I could perform live where the Freqbox is almost percussive and the Voyager lays down a bass line.

THe CP is like a modulation Bus.....I think the MP201 would be a great modulator as well especially coupled with the CP.

Check out the video if you haven't already, its a SYnthesists eye view of whats going on with a MoogerFooger/Voyager system.

Eric

Saw the videos which are a good introduction on how to patch foogers and the Voyager to the CP-251. I guess in the long run I am much more inclined now to get a full blown modular than a Voyager.

A few reason for this. First, Plan-B, Doepfer and probably some other modular makers have vactrols. I am a big fan of Morton Subotnick who used Buchla synths which had vactrols and are certainly part of the Buchla sound. Don't get me wrong, I love Moog stuff to and I have certainly invested major $s in foogers lately but Moog is not longer making modulars.

Here is a classic example from Doepfer and Plan B:

Doepfer: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm
Plan B:
http://www.ear-group.net/model_13.html (vactrols inside!)

Second, there are a lot of nice modules with multiple filters and effects that can create much more complex setups than the foogers. A quick look at some of the modules out there and you can see that.

Third, I like the idea of having a frequency follower. Here is Analogue Systems version:

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs30.htm

I also have a Korg M3 with a Radius expansion option. This is certainly a synth that is not afraid of being digital but with an analogue emulator inside, I can get presets that have an analogue sound to them. The Voyager or Litte Phatty would really not have that much to offer me so probably, my next major purchase will be at least a base level anlogue modular with lots of room to grow.

I don't want to be a killjoy but you REALLY have to take a look at the several looong threads http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=16 before even thinking about spending any money on Plan B products. I have several modules, but their business practices, attitude to customers and quality control are awful to the point of being just about unbelievable. Sorry to drag it in here but I do think the whole modular community needs to be aware of what is going on there...

on a brighter note Harvestman, Doepfer, Livewire, Make Noise, Bugbrand, Flight of Harmony and others are making fantastic stuff and seem far more reliable sources. Moog really should join this group of manufacturers, a great modular resurgence is taking place out there guys!!!

Thanks for that, I appreciate the advice. I read the SOS article on modulars, come good advice, but they did not seem to say anything negative about Plan B although I have to admit, that they did not say anything negative about anyone. Doepfer got come very positive comments.

You did not mention Cwejman. What do you think of them? I probably am going Eurorack and I like some of their modules. Not great for building from scatch but nice stuff to add to a basic modular.

What attracted me to Plan B is that they have vactrols. Then again, so does Doepfer but their modules look a bit more interesting. I also have some intersting in Cynthia. Specialty stuff but I like their oscillator and possible the woggle bug.

I would love to see Moog Music back in the modular business. I always thing of Keith Emerson's beast that he took on stage:

Here he is being introduced at the Moogfest by the man himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6y1htz6jGE

Not sure what he is using here but certainly a modular.

And yes, modulars are jumping up all over the place. The number of modular makes far exceeds that of digital synths. I would love to see Moog Music put some really interesting modules out there so complement the fooger line.

I wonder if using the sonuus g2m (audio to midi converter) into a midi>cv converter into the freqbox freq in would give you that smooth oscillator sound. The audio out of the g2m would go into the audio in of the freqbox and then audio out of the freq to what ever, with sync off and mix 100%.....I think that might work actually I wish I owned either of those so I could try it