Voyager vs Model D

HowIMadeMyMillions · Post by **HowIMadeMyMillions** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:41 pm

I've been a little disturbed to have been reading so many posts that claim that the model D is still way phatter then the new moog voyager. I don't have a voyager as for me price (as I can always get a cheap moog and fix'r up) and vintage history have been my primary interests concerning synths. But I thought Moog would develop the voyager so to never lose a bit of the originals' phat-ness. Is it the new electronics which keeps the oscs too stable or is these owners who do not have the ear/playability to mimic the Model D? As much as I drool over the voyager and now the beautiful Ann. Edition, these posts have made me happy with my decision to keep it vintage. I just don't know why people would spend a bleep load for a voy and then want a Model D for any other reason then to collect. Any thoughts?

monads · Post by **monads** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:11 pm

HowIMadeMyMillions wrote:I just don't know why people would spend a bleep load for a voy and then want a Model D for any other reason then to collect.

I would agree. I'd rather go and get a another voyager or acquire a different vintage synth like an Arp odyssey

or Arp 2600.

Demokid · Post by **Demokid** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:28 pm

The Model D sounds a lot fatter and warmer but the Voyager has far more modulation possibilities, MIDI and memory. The Voyager sounds Moog, the filter and VCO’s are great but it does not get the last bit… I think the Voyager’s VCO’s are a bit to stable.

I have both a Model D, SN:1737 with Kenton MIDI and a Voyager AE SN:139. If I want ultra fat basses, leads then I just use my Mode D.

Kind regards
Demokid

FreqOut · Post by **FreqOut** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:48 pm

I sold my model D (serial 16xx) a few months after I got my Voyager.
They definately don't sound the same, but after I got over that I realized that the Voyager is much more powerful. Is the sound as 'fat'? YES!
But it doesn't sound as 'alive' to me simply because the oscillators don't drift like on the model D.
I think the "phattness" comes from the filter, and the one on the voyager sounds just like the one on the model D as long as you only use the left output and put a dummy plug in the right output.
freqout

Boeing 737-400 · Post by **Boeing 737-400** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:47 pm

HowIMadeMyMillions wrote:I just don't know why people would spend a bleep load for a voy and then want a Model D for any other reason then to collect.

I can't help feeling that you are referring to me! If someone wants to spend more money on a Model D a while after purchasing a Voyager, then its entirely up to them!

Maybe one wants to relive the old days of drifting oscillators! And the sound of a Model D is fatter!

I think the "phattness" comes from the filter, and the one on the voyager sounds just like the one on the model D as long as you only use the left output and put a dummy plug in the right output.

I am one of those using only the left output, inserting a dummy plug is something I'll have to try, but having never seen one of those, I'll try inserting a 1/4" lead in the right output but not plugging it into anything.

ebg31 · Post by **ebg31** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:38 pm

FreqOut wrote:I sold my model D (serial 16xx) a few months after I got my Voyager.
They definately don't sound the same, but after I got over that I realized that the Voyager is much more powerful. Is the sound as 'fat'? YES!
But it doesn't sound as 'alive' to me simply because the oscillators don't drift like on the model D.
I think the "phattness" comes from the filter, and the one on the voyager sounds just like the one on the model D as long as you only use the left output and put a dummy plug in the right output.
freqout

Aww, come on! So, the osillators in the Voyager don't drift? I'm sure that Dr. Moog's reasoning in that was to ADD to the Voyager's sonic potential, rather than SUBTRACT from it.

Of course, I've never played a Model D, or other original Moog, but I have owned an ARP Axxe for a few years. If that drift were more important, I'd get an Odyssey, or a Mellotron with unstable playback tapes. The one thing the Model D really has up on the Voyager is that it's a bit closer to affordable.

MC · Post by MC » Mon May 24, 2004 11:41 pm

I have both a model D and a Voyager.

There are a lot of similarities to the sound until you get to the features unique to the Voyager (MIDI, dual filters, modulation options, etc). I keep the D around because 1) it has the Lintronics MIDI interface (excellent kit) 2) I can delegate sounds best suited for the D or the Voyager, and 3) it is a very early Minimoog, the 53rd one built at the original RA Moog Trumansburg factory so there's the collectability vibe

I don't think the Voyager oscillators are too stable, they do have some short term drift to them and they stabilize to room temperature really fast - where any other analog needs fifteen minutes to get stable at room temp, the Voyager only needs twenty SECONDS.

The market value of a model D dropped when the Voyager hit its stride, with good reason. A lot of folks dumped them to fund Voyagers, and the feature set of the Voyager drove down the model D's value as well.

Anybody seen market prices for original Taurus pedals lately? Outrageous!!!

LWG · Post by **LWG** » Tue May 25, 2004 3:55 am

While having been able to work with the Mini back in the 70's, I actually prefer the Voyager to the Mini. For those fortunate enough to already have both, it is a good thing.
The tuning stability of the Voyager , for me, is a big improvement. For many
who toured with the older analog gear back in the seventies, there was nothing endearing about performing with gear that frequently when out of tune or proved unstable under differing ambient conditions. Its exactly what turned them off about some of the gear. Reliability and predictability can be a good thing.
Second, I feel that the greater bit of sonic density one perceives in the Mini is overly attributed to unstable oscillators. The perceived difference IMO is
due to Mini's discrete audiopath (no chip-based op amps or transistor packs). It would be prohibitively expensive to build a commercial synth using these methods now, so I never expected the Voyager to sound exactly like the Mini.
That being said, it think that the filter on the Voyager as well as most of the newer generation of analogs allow key players to create a wider variety
of tone colors and textures than much of the older analog gear did.
The filtering modes and routings I see on instruments like the Voyager, Andromeda, S.E. Omega 8, Oberheim OB-MX, and Q+, are what many of
us had hoped to see back in the day.

Regards

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:11 am

Demokid wrote:The Model D sounds a lot fatter and warmer

I've had my voyager for over a year now and it sounds better and better all the time. When I first got it I thought it sounded a little squeezed (for want of a better word) but that has definitely given way to a far deeper richness. You must remember you are comparing 20-30 year old analogue electronics with brand new electronics. Give your voyager some time to age and breathe (and plenty of play time) and I think you'll be surprised...

p.s. I'd also rather have an ARP of some sort than a model D, given that I have the voyager...

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:04 pm

I owned a real Minimoog more then 20 years before I bought the Voyager.

To me my Mini (#11xxx) is way more moving. The oscillators sound different when detuned. At least to me. And the envelopes are different.

But the Voyager is the only synth that is real close to the Mini in terms of sound.
And I bought the Voyager for its new possibilities and the patch memory.

And I would never take my Mini on stage. But I will take my Voyager on stage soon.

FreqOut · Post by **FreqOut** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:40 pm

737,
You should definately try inserting a cord into the right output but don't plug it into anything. This is different from just using the left (mono) out because it splits the filters so you're only hearing one. The Spacing control will not have an effect on the sound like when using both outs, and you will get a sound closer to the model D.
FreqOut

FreqOut · Post by **FreqOut** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:48 pm

EBG,
Yes, the oscillators on the Voyager hardly drift at all. This is due to the way the temperature is controlled. I like to add a bit of simulated drift to my voyager patches by first slightly detuning the second oscillator, then using a modulation bus to slowly shift osc2's frequency up and down. That's as close as I've been able to come to the sound of the early model D oscillator drift.
But it still doesn't sound the same as a model D.

FreqOut

peter ripa · Post by **peter ripa** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:10 am

instead of plugging a dummy into the right output i use only the right one and leaves the left output empty. as long as you are in LP-mode and dont touch the spacing this gives the same result ie the sound of one filter instead of the sum of two.

Boeing 737-400 · Post by **Boeing 737-400** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:16 pm

I must be doing something wrong as I don't hear a sound difference when trying either of the methods!

BrianK · Post by **BrianK** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:46 am

Agreed - Nearly everyone who thinks the old Minimoog is fatter usually is comparing the sound of the TWO Voyager filters.

Although you would THINK this makes it fatter, it actually smears the sound a bit - like a richness.

The punch and hard cut of an old Minimoog comes from the one filter. So using the Left-only output (not the mixed one) leaves you with that nice clean Minimoog punch. It is a noticeable change and suddenly you can say - "Hey that sounds more like a Mini".

ALL Mini D's are different, I have been cataloging the changes to the oroiginal Mini's - they are all different. You could just as easily say "Is the Minimoog D phatter than the Minimoog D?" and get differences!

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