Timber used in the Moog guitar....

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:55 am

How is the Mahogany and Ebony being sourced for the new guitar?

I don't mean to put a downer on what is a great new concept but it frustrates me that people are still using timber from species that are in many cases under threat in the wild. Obviously i did not know Bob myself, but from i have seen in the 'Moog' film, he seemed to be an eco-friendly type of guy who was in awe of the natural world. Perhaps he would be perfectly happy with these wood choices (only you guys at Moog would know the answer to that) but to me it seems like a strange decision.

There are many viable alternatives to Mahogany and Ebony so i just don't understand the choice here.

*edit* Just to be clear i am not accusing Moog or Zion of anything, i am hoping to find out how the wood is sourced.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:23 am

Are you attacking MOOG or Guitarists in general?

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:14 pm

I am not attacking Moog or guitarists (except those that actively seek out rare wood), i am asking how the wood is being sourced for these guitars. I am against the irresponsible use of our dwindling natural resources.

As a guitarist and bass player myself, i do not support the use of endangered timber in their construction. If you support the use of threatened species then that's your own choice, but i don't and my questions are valid. I used to make my living as a luthier, but i never once used any timber that i could not identify as coming from a carefully managed source.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:04 pm

Do you know Zion guitars to be a seller of guitars made from wildly grown Mahogany and or Ebony trees (being trees stolen from a rain forest and not grown on a farm)? I'm a little concerned reading their website, and seeing guitar prices - who knows if they even do!!

On a side note, Ghost, you should be unhappy with consumers supporting using threatened species. Educating them against the companies who do this is the best form of protest, because then the consumer ultimately decide the fate of a product / company. Is that your motivation here?

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:20 pm

No i don't know if they use farm grown wood (though i would be very surprised if they are using farm grown Ebony), that's the whole point of my first post.

I AM ASKING HOW THE WOOD IS SOURCED.

I do not mean that in an agressive tone. i'm just trying to get the point across. If they have taken steps to ensure that the Mahogany and Ebony are purchased from sound sources then i would be happier. At the end of the day i know most people don't care about this stuff anyway but it matters to me.

Of course i agree that consumers play an important part, but to say that education is the best form of protest somehow shifts the burden of responsibilty away from the manufacturers. Everyone needs to work equally to ensure we don't loose anymore valuable habitiats.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:29 pm

Also i should point out that i am in no way suggesting that Zion guitars are a big time offender even if they do use old growth timber.

Gibson and others that consume vast quantities of Mahogany etc.. have the impact of probably several thousand smaller luthiers like Zion, but they are just huge corporations now and don't care at all in the first place.

The point is, everyone has an impact no matter what the size of business, and it often falls to the smaller guys to innovate and lead the way by example.

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:34 pm

i agree with ghost. there is so much in this world (bacteria, archaea, and eukarya) thats on the brink of extinction. and people just dont seem to care as long as they get what they need. i was kind of disgusted by an article i read about danny carrey (from tool) recently where he was talking about how he needed this rare wood for his drum shells except the tree which was not only somewhat endangered also housed a bird that was endangered. he said something along the lines of "i may have wipe out a species of bird to get these drums". people just need to start using comon sense when harvesting products.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:38 pm

I don't disagree with you for any of this, and I'm not challenging your question, it should be asked, and acknowledged, I'm trying to get more of your point out to the world.

It matters to me too, you can't hug trees if they're all guitars!! Sorry that was really cheesy.

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:18 pm

Sorry if i misunderstood you Alien8, i didn't mean to seem jumpy in my response.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:52 pm

No need to apologize for passion in what you believe!!

i was kind of disgusted by an article i read about danny carrey (from tool) recently where he was talking about how he needed this rare wood for his drum shells except the tree which was not only somewhat endangered also housed a bird that was endangered. he said something along the lines of "i may have wipe out a species of bird to get these drums". people just need to start using comon sense when harvesting products.

You sometimes have to take what Danny Carey (for that matter most of Tool) says with a grain of salt - especially to the media. Did you hear about the strategy of completely filling the studio room with helium to get the right sound from the drums too?

Anyways, back on topic... WHAT SAY YOU MOOG??

[/quote]

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:57 pm

Alien8 wrote:No need to apologize for passion in what you believe!!

i was kind of disgusted by an article i read about danny carrey (from tool) recently where he was talking about how he needed this rare wood for his drum shells except the tree which was not only somewhat endangered also housed a bird that was endangered. he said something along the lines of "i may have wipe out a species of bird to get these drums". people just need to start using comon sense when harvesting products.
You sometimes have to take what Danny Carey (for that matter most of Tool) says with a grain of salt - especially to the media. Did you hear about the strategy of completely filling the studio room with helium to get the right sound from the drums too?

Anyways, back on topic... WHAT SAY YOU MOOG??

[/quote]that is true i dint think of that aspect of it...they have all died, come out of the closet, and sprouted wings out their arses, too

Nick Montoya · Post by **Nick Montoya** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:48 pm

You should probably contact Zion with thus question as opposed to Moog..

I'm sure they have a much better idea and answer for you...

You will likely get no response from Moog because 1, they're very small busy company and 2, they probably aren't sure how the wood is sourced either...

- Nick

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:32 pm

Yeah props to Ghost for raising this issue.

However, living on a pine plantation I can say that as long as there is proper rehabillitation of the forest then one should be able to use any kind of wood they want to.

Im just waiting for the next Voyager select model to come out....the one gilded with African Diamonds.

Just kidding!!!!!

Eric

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:45 pm

I'm still waiting for my Custom Whitewash with the ivory knobs and tortoiseshell inlay!

Something about they can't find the California Condor feathers to line the case with......... it's one excuse after another.

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:30 am

Ghost wrote:I am not attacking Moog or guitarists (except those that actively seek out rare wood), i am asking how the wood is being sourced for these guitars. I am against the irresponsible use of our dwindling natural resources.

As a guitarist and bass player myself, i do not support the use of endangered timber in their construction. If you support the use of threatened species then that's your own choice, but i don't and my questions are valid. I used to make my living as a luthier, but i never once used any timber that i could not identify as coming from a carefully managed source.

Well gee whiz. What is THE BEST USE OF LIMITED NATURAL RESOURCES???

Man, we could argue that the Voyager, in fact all electronic music IS A WASTE OF PRECIOUS ENERGY.

But we don't now, do we???

You wanna know what the locals in the Amazon were making out of the 200+ year-old Brazilian Rosewood trees they downed so Mickey D could have cheap burgers????

CHARCOAL.

It was that kind of wastefulness that brought about CITES in the first place!!!!!

With all the crap going on in the world I can't believe anyone with the time and enlightenment to enjoy art and music has time to complain about something so trivial as the wood source for a $6500 guitar.

You wanna complain about something, write your Congressman. That oughta keep you busy.