Moog Music Forum

my slim phatty doesnt retrigger the 1st note's envelope when I attempt to 'trill' between 2 notes on the keyboard.. anyone know how to get this to work?

to explain further - i am holding the first note down, and tapping 2nd note with 1st note still held .. when i let go of the 2nd note, the first note should retrigger the envelope, but this is not happening.. my 'keyboard priority' setting is on 'last note', but ive tried the other options and this does not affect the lack of retriggering.. (or is it referred to as multi trig?)

whats going on here? is this even possible? i feel like it should be able to do this by default and also seem to remember the little phatty doing this successfully out of the box, but i dont have one available to compare.

any insight would be appreciated.

ps: i have slim phatty with firmware version 3.12

dboz wrote:my slim phatty doesnt retrigger the 1st note's envelope when I attempt to 'trill' between 2 notes on the keyboard.

Hi dboz,

Have you checked to see that the GATE setting (in ADVANCED PRESET) is not set to LEG ON (Legato On)?

(See Advance Preset menus in LP ii manual 2.2)

LEG OFF or EGR RESET are the two variations of what you're looking for (unless, of course, it's something else causing your issue).

dboz wrote:...
my 'keyboard priority' setting is on 'last note'
...

You mixing up two different things here.
The keyboard priority defines which pitch is played on a monophonic instrument, when there is more than one key pressed.
Last key = only the latest played note pitch is heard
high note = the highest note played will be heard -> many vintage ARPs had this
low note = the lowest note played will be heard -> this is what a Minimoog, Moog Prodigy, Moog Source and many other pure analog Moogs do

For the triggering of the envelopes there is:
multiple trigger = every new pressed key will trigger the envelope(s)
single trigger = the envelope(s) will only triggered again, if a key is pressed while no other key is already down -> this is what a Minimoog, Moog Prodigy, Moog Source and many other pure analog Moogs do

And then there is the magic of analog that is often not recreated on software monophonic synths or even some hardware synths with monophonic mode (I know some expensive non Moog ones that do this wrong):
When you retrgiger an analog envelope on a vintage monophonic Moogs (and other brands), the envelope is not starting all the way from zero when it is triggered again, if the release stage has not yet finished to zero. So if the release is rather long and the gap between the notes way shorter, you will not get a slow attack, as the attack will not start from zero and is closer to the max where the decay sets in.

All these (low note key priority, single trigger, envelopes starting from where they are at the new note) is part of the way the minimoog and other Moog were built. And some players got so used to this, that their playing technique is using these technical caused behavior to get a certain expression.

I started playing keyboards with a Moog Prodigy and later a Minimoog (second keyboard) many years ago. So I am very much into this playing techniques. Much like many Minimoog soli by Manfred Mann or Klaus Schulze won't be playable with different settings in key and trigger, or envelope response.

Example for the envelope response:
Set the synth to single trigger, key priority suiting you best, long envelope attack on filter, long envelope release on filter and VCA. Now play a trill without overlapping key pressures (= not legato). You will notice how the filter will slowly opened by the long attack, although you playing many individual notes.
Now do the very same with a polyphonic instrument. Still no overlapped played notes. But totally different result. Or use a monophonic synth that retriggers the envelopes from zero on every note. Again a different result, although you did play the very same notes.

Many (but luckily not all) trained keyboard players never adapt to monophonic playing and expect every new note to be played and to get a new attack (last note key priority, multiple trigger).

Thanks for the extensive explanation and examples, Till

Make sure that the Gate setting in the Advanced preset is not set to Leg on.

stiiiiiiive wrote:Thanks for the extensive explanation and examples, Till

What he said!!!