Moog Music Forum

oh man... i know i'm just making you guys shake your heads with every post i make but i promise you this will be the last of this kind i will ever make.

can the moogerfooger low pass filter do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWCoXTo ... pe%20alive

basically the main sound. can it do that? do you guys detect a hint that this may require an octave pedal of osme sort or is it fine?


thanks alot guys, you have been very helpful to me in the past!.

I think you can get pretty close with a fuzz pedal and the Low Pass Filter. You'll probably want a foot controller to control the frequency of the filter.

Bryan

Bryan T wrote:I think you can get pretty close with a fuzz pedal and the Low Pass Filter. You'll probably want a foot controller to control the frequency of the filter.

Bryan

thank you very much!

Personally, I'm skeptical that you'll be able to get that sound with a guitar and MF-101. I think that the attack and decay of the synth sound in the clip is part of the overall sound, not just the filter. I could be wrong though - can't you order it from some place where you can return it if you don't like it?

I was playing around with my equipment tonight and I think I can get pretty close with a guitar, a distortion or fuzz pedal (Z Vex Fuzz Factory or Pro Co Rat II), and the Low Pass Filter. I use a foot controller to control the frequency and set the resonance on the filter pretty high. I can't get the sound quite as "honky" as the Crystal Method track, but with some more EQ adjustment I think I could. You'll definitely want a distortion/fuzz pedal that adds a lot of harmonics to the sound, as that gives the low pass filter something to work with.

I was going to make a recording, but it got too late. Maybe tomorrow.

-BT

hieronymous wrote:Personally, I'm skeptical that you'll be able to get that sound with a guitar and MF-101. I think that the attack and decay of the synth sound in the clip is part of the overall sound, not just the filter. I could be wrong though - can't you order it from some place where you can return it if you don't like it?

what pedal would provide that attack and decay element?

Bryan T wrote:
I was going to make a recording, but it got too late. Maybe tomorrow.

-BT

oh man that would be so sweet if you could do that. all the examples i'm hearing for this pedal are nothing but funk samples and whatnot, not exactly electronica stuff.

I don't really know what I'm talking about in this case - let's wait for Bryan T's samples.

Deke wrote:

hieronymous wrote:Personally, I'm skeptical that you'll be able to get that sound with a guitar and MF-101. I think that the attack and decay of the synth sound in the clip is part of the overall sound, not just the filter. I could be wrong though - can't you order it from some place where you can return it if you don't like it?

what pedal would provide that attack and decay element?

Bryan T wrote:
I was going to make a recording, but it got too late. Maybe tomorrow.

-BT

oh man that would be so sweet if you could do that. all the examples i'm hearing for this pedal are nothing but funk samples and whatnot, not exactly electronica stuff.

interesting. i guess in a cetain context (guitaristic wah-type sounds) this pedal could be seen primarily as a 'funkifier', but as one of the building blocks of analog synthesis, filters have long been used in 'electronica' and other forms of electronic music (and though moog gear has certainly had a history of being used by funk players of the seventies, i think that was more a function of the times, the portability and expressiveness of the mini-moog and its brethren compared to what had come before, and the fact that due to the moog filter's frequency range and resonant qualities, corpulent bass timbres were easy to dial up, rather than anything inherently limiting in the sonic capabilities of the instrument). one of the things i think you'll find with this pedal is its adaptability to many forms of musical, and some might argue non-musical expression.

So the sound isn't exact, but I think I could get closer with some more tweaking. The sound still needs to be a bit "honkier" and could use less high end fizz. Here is my quick example of messing around with the basic idea:

http://www.bryantysinger.com/Demos/crystalmoog.mp3

This isn't a style I usually play or a sound that I usually go for and I think better foot control would get the sound closer. I hope that gives you an idea of what you can do with the Low Pass Filter, a foot controller, a fuzz, and a guitar.

Bryan

my two cents: i think that trying to imitate that synth sound on guitar isn't really going to be about finding a pedal that can do it (although the lpf/101 will add the filter sweep sound to the guitar), but more about finding a different way to approach/play your guitar to get less conventional guitar sounds and more 'synthy' type of sounds.

for example, the guitarist in melt banana does some stuff that at times can sound like the synth in that clip and he just uses his guitar and a slide (at least for producing those sounds). (check out a couple songs off 'charlie' if you're interested in hearing what they do)

so i think that you'll be able to use any of the moog pedals (including the 101) to get toward the sound you're looking for, but at the same time you're not going to just plug your guitar in, play a chord and sound like that clip. things like using a slide in different rhythmic ways, weird pic/string scratching, using an ebow, or whatever else you can come up with that's a lot more creative than my (admittedly lame) suggestions.

i also lean toward what hieronymous said in the other thread. so i'd hate to see you to drop a good amount of money on a moog pedal because you think it will perfectly nail a certain synth sound and then get it just to be disappointed and think 'this is nothing more than a glorified wah pedal.'

Bryan T wrote:So the sound isn't exact, but I think I could get closer with some more tweaking. The sound still needs to be a bit "honkier" and could use less high end fizz. Here is my quick example of messing around with the basic idea:

http://www.bryantysinger.com/Demos/crystalmoog.mp3

This isn't a style I usually play or a sound that I usually go for and I think better foot control would get the sound closer. I hope that gives you an idea of what you can do with the Low Pass Filter, a foot controller, a fuzz, and a guitar.

Bryan

i was very impressed with that. very close to the sound but what you played was just as good. what fuzz did you use and what was your setup involved in creating that sound?

i'm hoping to do something similar to that with my setup, though unfortunately i have no fuzz. i have an EQ that i use for my overdrive (MXR 10 band) and a dual rectifier with a les paul standard.

oh and in regards to it being honkier, what do you suppose controls that on the lpf? or is it not just strictly one knob that does it?

asd wrote:my two cents: i think that trying to imitate that synth sound on guitar isn't really going to be about finding a pedal that can do it (although the lpf/101 will add the filter sweep sound to the guitar), but more about finding a different way to approach/play your guitar to get less conventional guitar sounds and more 'synthy' type of sounds.

for example, the guitarist in melt banana does some stuff that at times can sound like the synth in that clip and he just uses his guitar and a slide (at least for producing those sounds). (check out a couple songs off 'charlie' if you're interested in hearing what they do)

so i think that you'll be able to use any of the moog pedals (including the 101) to get toward the sound you're looking for, but at the same time you're not going to just plug your guitar in, play a chord and sound like that clip. things like using a slide in different rhythmic ways, weird pic/string scratching, using an ebow, or whatever else you can come up with that's a lot more creative than my (admittedly lame) suggestions.

i also lean toward what hieronymous said in the other thread. so i'd hate to see you to drop a good amount of money on a moog pedal because you think it will perfectly nail a certain synth sound and then get it just to be disappointed and think 'this is nothing more than a glorified wah pedal.'

i totally understand what you're getting at, and i guess i just have to try stuff out. i'm very interested in seeing what an ebow does to my playing.

lg wrote:

Deke wrote:

hieronymous wrote:Personally, I'm skeptical that you'll be able to get that sound with a guitar and MF-101. I think that the attack and decay of the synth sound in the clip is part of the overall sound, not just the filter. I could be wrong though - can't you order it from some place where you can return it if you don't like it?

what pedal would provide that attack and decay element?

Bryan T wrote:
I was going to make a recording, but it got too late. Maybe tomorrow.

-BT

oh man that would be so sweet if you could do that. all the examples i'm hearing for this pedal are nothing but funk samples and whatnot, not exactly electronica stuff.

interesting. i guess in a cetain context (guitaristic wah-type sounds) this pedal could be seen primarily as a 'funkifier', but as one of the building blocks of analog synthesis, filters have long been used in 'electronica' and other forms of electronic music (and though moog gear has certainly had a history of being used by funk players of the seventies, i think that was more a function of the times, the portability and expressiveness of the mini-moog and its brethren compared to what had come before, and the fact that due to the moog filter's frequency range and resonant qualities, corpulent bass timbres were easy to dial up, rather than anything inherently limiting in the sonic capabilities of the instrument). one of the things i think you'll find with this pedal is its adaptability to many forms of musical, and some might argue non-musical expression.

i guess i was a little naive when i heard the importance of a filter in a synth and when i tried to get clips of it i only heard funk, which was a bit puzzling since a filter from what i understood could do a whole lot more than just funk and reggae. but listening to songs which actually utilize filters you're right.

it's funny, in the past i've bought pieces of equipment with in mind one genre, but later on i end up using it for a whole lot more!

Deke wrote:i was very impressed with that. very close to the sound but what you played was just as good. what fuzz did you use and what was your setup involved in creating that sound?

i'm hoping to do something similar to that with my setup, though unfortunately i have no fuzz. i have an EQ that i use for my overdrive (MXR 10 band) and a dual rectifier with a les paul standard.

oh and in regards to it being honkier, what do you suppose controls that on the lpf? or is it not just strictly one knob that does it?

That was actually a RAT II pedal into the Low Pass Filter. I'm using the foot controller to control the filter cutoff frequency. I recorded it direct into my Digi002 and used Amplitube set to a clean amp sound. In listening back to the two clips just now, I think I should have used less gain, as well as reduced the treble on the RAT II. Adding an EQ to the signal chain would allow me to add the honky mids that I think the sound needs.

I think you could also get pretty close to the recorded sound with a distortion pedal and the right wah-wah.

asd wrote:my two cents: i think that trying to imitate that synth sound on guitar isn't really going to be about finding a pedal that can do it (although the lpf/101 will add the filter sweep sound to the guitar), but more about finding a different way to approach/play your guitar to get less conventional guitar sounds and more 'synthy' type of sounds.

I agree with this completely. I create lots of synthy sounds on electric guitar, but they rarely involve just plugging in a pedal. Combining elements (Ebow, slide, tremolo, low pass filter, and delay, for example) is really the way to get away from "guitaristic" sounds.

asd wrote:i also lean toward what hieronymous said in the other thread. so i'd hate to see you to drop a good amount of money on a moog pedal because you think it will perfectly nail a certain synth sound and then get it just to be disappointed and think 'this is nothing more than a glorified wah pedal.'

Yep! That's why I think it is important to try the pedals out before you buy them. The online clips give some sense of what the pedals can do, but until you are twiddling the knobs and hearing how it responds to your playing, then it is hard to know if it will work for you.

I use my Low Pass Filter for lots of things in my studio (guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, processing loops, etc.). If I were just a guitar player looking to sound more like a synth player, I still think a guitar synth will be the cheapest and most versatile solution.

Bryan

Bryan T wrote:

Deke wrote:i was very impressed with that. very close to the sound but what you played was just as good. what fuzz did you use and what was your setup involved in creating that sound?

i'm hoping to do something similar to that with my setup, though unfortunately i have no fuzz. i have an EQ that i use for my overdrive (MXR 10 band) and a dual rectifier with a les paul standard.

oh and in regards to it being honkier, what do you suppose controls that on the lpf? or is it not just strictly one knob that does it?

That was actually a RAT II pedal into the Low Pass Filter. I'm using the foot controller to control the filter cutoff frequency. I recorded it direct into my Digi002 and used Amplitube set to a clean amp sound. In listening back to the two clips just now, I think I should have used less gain, as well as reduced the treble on the RAT II. Adding an EQ to the signal chain would allow me to add the honky mids that I think the sound needs.

I think you could also get pretty close to the recorded sound with a distortion pedal and the right wah-wah.

what a coincidence. the group that played the sample in my first post in the thread, crystal method, use a moogerfoogerlow pass filter and a RAT, so it's no wonder you got as close as you did.

in regards to an EQ, would you just cut the mids or increase them?

Deke wrote:what a coincidence. the group that played the sample in my first post in the thread, crystal method, use a moogerfoogerlow pass filter and a RAT, so it's no wonder you got as close as you did.

in regards to an EQ, would you just cut the mids or increase them?

LOL! That's really interesting that they use those two effects. I didn't know that. I wonder if that is the combination they used on the track.

To make the sound more "honky" I would add midrange.

By the way, the RAT and Low Pass Filter is a great combination of drum machines, too.

Bryan

Bryan T wrote:

Deke wrote:what a coincidence. the group that played the sample in my first post in the thread, crystal method, use a moogerfoogerlow pass filter and a RAT, so it's no wonder you got as close as you did.

in regards to an EQ, would you just cut the mids or increase them?

LOL! That's really interesting that they use those two effects. I didn't know that. I wonder if that is the combination they used on the track.

To make the sound more "honky" I would add midrange.

By the way, the RAT and Low Pass Filter is a great combination of drum machines, too.

Bryan

i'm not sure if they actually used those two to create that sound, but looking at a list of their gear, the things that stood out from their gear list was the moogerfoogers 101 and 102 and a Pro Co Rat.

thanks alot bryan the responses in this thread by all were awesome.