Moog Music Forum

Dear tone gurus....first off I want to cry because I spent 1 hour trying to write an intelligent post and somehow deleted it about a minute before I went to post it.

You are going to get the short version which is better because more people will read it. Plus there is no way I could focus for another hour.

I was in a horrific accident at end of 2012 which was so bad I was pronounced dead for over two minutes. Broke 15 ribs, clavicle, fractured skull, had a traumatic brain injury, and developed a pulmonary embolism during my 19 days in hospital which almost killed me again. God had big plans for me.

I am 54, been playing guitar for 40 years, blues, rock, funk, hard rock, classical and even dig EDM and Trance music. The amazing part of this story besides being able to post tonight because I came close to crossing over to spiritual world, is that I sold my home studio in 2008, all my guitars, even my CD collection swearing I would never gig, write, jam, & record music ever again.

The late great Dr Wayne Dyer had a saying which went "do not die with the music still in you" which is a metaphor for anything in life. For me, I came close to dying with music still in me.

My neurologists asked if I had any hobbies and answer was chess & guitar. They wanted me to start using my noodle again and were ecstatic when they heard my hobbies. . I played over 3000 games of chess on chess.com and also picked up a nylon string figuring learning Bach would be better on the brain then practicing Megadeath. Then another miracle happened.

I fell in love with music again to the point I have NEVER been this passionate in my life about music and started to put a new home studio together, This time I was going to use a DAW and wound up buying Ableton and Push because I read Ableton was designed with the musician in mind so it could also be used in a live situation. Understand, I didn't even know what a controller was and couldn't spell MIDI a year ago. What I didn't realize was the HUGE learning curve involved and almost quit but I stayed at it and eventually hired an online Ableton instructor who taught me more in 3 weeks than I learned in previous 6 months and kept me in the game.

Then the coolest piece of digital gear which came out which was a wireless MIDI guitar controller called Fishman Triple play so now I was able to control the soft synths inside of Ableton with my guitar. That was a true game changer. I purchased all these very cool soft synths like Native rInstruments Komplete Ultimate 10. Omnisphere 2, Serum, Artuia V collection etc. I also have the Native Instruments s 61 keybaord controller. I was really starting to dig the digital world until I purchased my very first piece of analog gear which was the Moog Sub 37. I felt like this piece of gear was magical and had a special Mojo about it. I also purchased a MoogerFooger Phaser and picked up a mint, brand new looking MoogerFooger 104 m SD with box and instructions for $1080 which turns out to be a very good price because they are selling for $1500 and up. I also learned a lesson that analog gear seems to hold it's value or as I learned, even go up. New digital controllers come out so often that the older controller loses 50% of value when the new model comes out.

So here is where I need all the gurus help as I want to complete my studio with a full analog setup which means an analog polyphonic keyboard, analog drum machine and of course, everyone needs a Theremin. As far as keyboards go, I really Like the Dave Smith Prophet 6. I realize the new Ob-6 model was released but I still like the looks and sounds I hear from the prophet 6.

So my question is if everyone is in agreement that the Prophet 6 compliments the Moog nicely and I am not overlooking something that may better compliment the Moog for sounds.

My biggest confusion is when it comes to analog drum machines. I read about the Dave Smith Tempest & the Elektron drum machines which are not cheap and was told both units, although very different architecture, , have a big learning curve. I do not want to spend my entire days learning gear as i prefer writing and playing. I will admit learning new gear can be fun as long as you are learning something new everyday. That's what happened with Ableton. I got to the point I could watch a YouTube video and understand what was going on. I do realize that once you get through the learning curve, you have ability to create amazing analog drum sounds.

I was online today and was checking out the new Roland Boutique series and was reading the reviews for their TR-8 Rhythm performer which is NOT analog but had great reviews, one person said it played real nice with his Moog.

Can anyone please chime in and let me know if you own a drum machine, which one is it, was the learning curve difficult, and if there is anything else I should be checking out. i also need to mention I have the Moog CP-251 which was recommended by a Moog rep who explained that once I understand LFO, filters, CV, gates, expression pedals, etc, the world of analog will provide me with a lot of fun.

Am I better off going with the $449 Roland unit or purchase one of these high end analog drum machines that will have learning curve but most likely produce much better sound sonce I know what the heck I am doing. I just want to make sure the price justifies the final end result. I already died once and know life is short, so that's the reason I am going all out on my studio because music is the only thing that kept me going after accident because there wqere times I wanted to check out. Thank God I did not use a permanent solution for a tempoary problem. Depresson will take you out of the game faster that any broken bones.

If you can think of any other gear that may bring an entire new world of sounds to what I already have, I would love to know about it. That's why the Theremin is so freaken cool. Plus I saw Joe Bonamassa using one in concert.

Luckily I have an in at a vey big music online store and get gear for 20 to 30 % less than advertised on site so I am able to get a tad more gear because of these savings.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and respond.

You rock

BobbyD-NYC

I watched a few videos after I posted on a new analog drum machine from Arturia called Max Brute with street price $499. . That is the only analog machine I am aware of in price range and definitely a simple learning curve.
That videos on YouTube sounded good. It should be available at all distributors soon and may already be out.

I do have a TBI because I thought this was my first post and I actually posted once before.

I should mention that I plan of doing a solo gig and I see a lot a musicians creating live music using all hardware without a laptop. I am not going to be so extreme and want to be able to play in both worlds and have digital and analog musicians come together at an open mic night I would like to start. Crazy idea but just might work.

Welcome to the forum!
First, congratulations on your recovery. There is nothing that people take for granted more than the little things we do every day such as tying our shoes with two hands. (Always compose in a word processing program and then copy/paste it to wherever you are posting. Some forums will log you out after a time period.)

Are you on Mac or PC? Since you are doing so much with software there is this program called VOLTA which can integrate in wonderful ways with your CV gear.

I don't own any drum machines worth mentioning at this point, but it seems like more than one is the way to go. I've lusted after the Tempest ever since I learned about it, and they supposedly recently fixed many of the bugs in the OS. It can also be used as a polysynth. The Tempest and the Elektron were the two that I was really looking at.

Modal Electronics has a polysynth for 5K. I haven't tried any of these but I'd go out on a limb and argue that the Prophet 6 or the OB6 would be great units to accompany your Sub37.

Modular synths are great fun also. If you got any more foogers you might want to consider either a CP-251 to expand on some of the functions or get some kind of modular synth. The exploration that happens on one of those instruments is incredibly gratifying.

Eric

Welcome to the forum, glad to see you're so much in your passion

I am myself a old Elektron user as I've played a MachineDrum UW for 8-9 years now. I've read once ot twice somebody not clicking with an Elektron instrument, but generally speaking, I've met users in love.
Most of the functions, key combos etc make sense. The machine is quite immediate to tame eventhough the possibilities are not the simplest.
The MDUW has cool sampling features, i.e. don't expect 128 MB, there are only 2, but the live sampling capabilities are such a fun! Or you can use one shot drums (normally short) samples.
If you absolutely aim at analogue, consider the Analog Rytm.
Their user manuals are available on the Elektron website, just saying

I don't know the Tempest. I remember having been interested, but I remember the thing to be too deep and not so easy to dive in. Plus it was a bit bugged at that time.
The new DrumBrute seems to be in a lower league, but I have a good feeling about it. Simple, analogue, some may say old school...

I was just playing my Sub37, MF-104M, Prophet 6 and TR-8 last night, so perhaps I can shed some light.

The Prophet 6 compliments the Sub37 very well. Their tones are quite different but they blend together nicely in a mix. Same holds true for the TR-8. It's not analog, but it sounds close enough to my ears. In fact, I've loaned my vintage TR-606 out to a friend because I don't use it anymore. The TR-8 is so much more flexible and is easier to use.

If I didn't own the TR-8, I'd immediately get the DrumBrute. It looks to be even easier to use and it seems to have more features for live performance. The only down side is that the kick drums don't have a long decay. I'm not a slave to the 808 kick sound, but I do appreciate being able to have an occasional kick with a really long decay. I might consider dumping my TR-8 in favor of the DrumBrute if I'm able to give it a try in person.

One thing to keep in mind with the TR-8 is that its bright lights are terribly annoying. I keep my music gear corner dimly lit, and the bright lights of the TR-8 are always a nuisance. The only time I truly enjoy using it is in the daytime. I'm going to disassemble it this winter and will install light dimming film above all of the LEDs. That will hopefully tame its lights.

If you go for the TR-8, you could consider buying used. It's been a very popular drum machine and there should be plenty of them on the used market, especially now that the DrumBrute is on the horizon.

Hi:

I use a Dave Smith Tetr4 as my polyphonic synthesizer - it comes very close to the Prophets. I run it with a Minitaur doing the bass stuff, and I think they sound terrific together (some of the presets in stereo on the DST are quite beautiful). Of course, the Tetr4 lacks cv manipulation, but with Moogerfoogers it can be ramped up quite a bit. So, all in all I am very happy with the DST (which I got as a demo deal). Great, great value for money.

Probably not a great "investment piece", but I can't afford entering that game (so no Mini D for me ).

Keep staying healthy!

Kirneh Ness wrote:Hi:

I use a Dave Smith Tetr4 as my polyphonic synthesizer - it comes very close to the Prophets. I run it with a Minitaur doing the bass stuff, and I think they sound terrific together (some of the presets in stereo on the DST are quite beautiful). Of course, the Tetr4 lacks cv manipulation, but with Moogerfoogers it can be ramped up quite a bit. So, all in all I am very happy with the DST (which I got as a demo deal). Great, great value for money.

Probably not a great "investment piece", but I can't afford entering that game (so no Mini D for me ).

Keep staying healthy!

Thanks to you and everyone for your advice. I am humbled. And yes, health is paramount for me know. God Bless

Rooftree wrote:I was just playing my Sub37, MF-104M, Prophet 6 and TR-8 last night, so perhaps I can shed some light.

The Prophet 6 compliments the Sub37 very well. Their tones are quite different but they blend together nicely in a mix. Same holds true for the TR-8. It's not analog, but it sounds close enough to my ears. In fact, I've loaned my vintage TR-606 out to a friend because I don't use it anymore. The TR-8 is so much more flexible and is easier to use.

If I didn't own the TR-8, I'd immediately get the DrumBrute. It looks to be even easier to use and it seems to have more features for live performance. The only down side is that the kick drums don't have a long decay. I'm not a slave to the 808 kick sound, but I do appreciate being able to have an occasional kick with a really long decay. I might consider dumping my TR-8 in favor of the DrumBrute if I'm able to give it a try in person.

One thing to keep in mind with the TR-8 is that its bright lights are terribly annoying. I keep my music gear corner dimly lit, and the bright lights of the TR-8 are always a nuisance. The only time I truly enjoy using it is in the daytime. I'm going to disassemble it this winter and will install light dimming film above all of the LEDs. That will hopefully tame its lights.

If you go for the TR-8, you could consider buying used. It's been a very popular drum machine and there should be plenty of them on the used market, especially now that the DrumBrute is on the horizon.

Rooftree wrote:I was just playing my Sub37, MF-104M, Prophet 6 and TR-8 last night, so perhaps I can shed some light.

The Prophet 6 compliments the Sub37 very well. Their tones are quite different but they blend together nicely in a mix. Same holds true for the TR-8. It's not analog, but it sounds close enough to my ears. In fact, I've loaned my vintage TR-606 out to a friend because I don't use it anymore. The TR-8 is so much more flexible and is easier to use.

If I didn't own the TR-8, I'd immediately get the DrumBrute. It looks to be even easier to use and it seems to have more features for live performance. The only down side is that the kick drums don't have a long decay. I'm not a slave to the 808 kick sound, but I do appreciate being able to have an occasional kick with a really long decay. I might consider dumping my TR-8 in favor of the DrumBrute if I'm able to give it a try in person.

One thing to keep in mind with the TR-8 is that its bright lights are terribly annoying. I keep my music gear corner dimly lit, and the bright lights of the TR-8 are always a nuisance. The only time I truly enjoy using it is in the daytime. I'm going to disassemble it this winter and will install light dimming film above all of the LEDs. That will hopefully tame its lights.

If you go for the TR-8, you could consider buying used. It's been a very popular drum machine and there should be plenty of them on the used market, especially now that the DrumBrute is on the horizon.

EricK wrote:Welcome to the forum!
First, congratulations on your recovery. There is nothing that people take for granted more than the little things we do every day such as tying our shoes with two hands. (Always compose in a word processing program and then copy/paste it to wherever you are posting. Some forums will log you out after a time period.)

Are you on Mac or PC? Since you are doing so much with software there is this program called VOLTA which can integrate in wonderful ways with your CV gear.

I don't own any drum machines worth mentioning at this point, but it seems like more than one is the way to go. I've lusted after the Tempest ever since I learned about it, and they supposedly recently fixed many of the bugs in the OS. It can also be used as a polysynth. The Tempest and the Elektron were the two that I was really looking at.

Modal Electronics has a polysynth for 5K. I haven't tried any of these but I'd go out on a limb and argue that the Prophet 6 or the OB6 would be great units to accompany your Sub37.

Modular synths are great fun also. If you got any more foogers you might want to consider either a CP-251 to expand on some of the functions or get some kind of modular synth. The exploration that happens on one of those instruments is incredibly gratifying.

Eric

Thanks for the advice. I am going to go for the new Drum Brute and possible get a used TR-8 as you suggested. I do have a CP-251, and two moogerFoogers 103 Phaser and 104m SD I picked up in mint condition for $1080 which I though was a good deal. Analog gear holds it's value.

I just posted in the MoogeFooger section forgetting I posted hear. I was wondering if picking up the Cluster Flux and Ring Modulator would add to the coolness of my analog sounds. I know they also make a low pass filter but I am not sure if that would be redundant with the Sub 37.

And advice would be most grateful.

Thanks

EricK wrote:Welcome to the forum!
First, congratulations on your recovery. There is nothing that people take for granted more than the little things we do every day such as tying our shoes with two hands. (Always compose in a word processing program and then copy/paste it to wherever you are posting. Some forums will log you out after a time period.)

Are you on Mac or PC? Since you are doing so much with software there is this program called VOLTA which can integrate in wonderful ways with your CV gear.

I don't own any drum machines worth mentioning at this point, but it seems like more than one is the way to go. I've lusted after the Tempest ever since I learned about it, and they supposedly recently fixed many of the bugs in the OS. It can also be used as a polysynth. The Tempest and the Elektron were the two that I was really looking at.

Modal Electronics has a polysynth for 5K. I haven't tried any of these but I'd go out on a limb and argue that the Prophet 6 or the OB6 would be great units to accompany your Sub37.

Modular synths are great fun also. If you got any more foogers you might want to consider either a CP-251 to expand on some of the functions or get some kind of modular synth. The exploration that happens on one of those instruments is incredibly gratifying.

Eric

Hey Eric. I am a Mac guy and yes I have the cp-251 and two moogerfoogers.103 phaser and 104m SD. Just trying to figure out if buying the clusterflux and ring modulator makes sense because this is all new to me and do not want to purchase something that may be redundant like the MoggerFooger low pass filter as I have the Sub 37..

Thanks for the good wishes on my recovery. Music is the ONLY thing that keeps me going.

To your health & happiness

Bobbyd--NYC

I must admit I just saw the new Pioneer/Dave Smith sampler called Toraiz SP-16 ,http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... gn20161110 drum machine with Dave Smith Analog filters and that looks likes an amazing new type of drum machine that way be worth taking a look at..

It looks like your fooger selection is more effects driven and complimentary than focusing on sound generation, does that sound accurate?
One thing that I've said repeatedly on here is that there really isn't a redundancy when it comes to modular gear. You can accomplish stereo filtering with another low pass filter and your Sub 37 with some clever patching. Or running 2 filters in a series, the first with fast modulation and the second with very slow modulation. There really isn't any redundancy, it just depends on how complex you want to get. Having a drum machine and an envelope filter like the 101 will be nice also. The 101 also is a sine wave generator. There's a whole lot that you can do. But I didn't see a freqbox on your selection, which made me think that your direction was primarily to augment your sub rather than to have an existing fooger synth voice. Or you are just buying exclusively new gear.

The cluster flux was a little too noisy for me. If you have the 104SD and a CP then you can get a lot of the modulation that the CF does minus the flanging. Instead I opted for a vintage Roland DC-50 (it did die on me though but that's about to be rectified).

The 105 series MURFs are really cool also. Don't forget about vintage Moog also. You can occasionally find stuff like the Graphic and Parametric EQ rack units, 12 stage phasers, etc. Those begin to get a little pricey though.

Unless you are just fixated on Moog, do consider some of the modular stuff. Moog has the Mother 32 in the eurorack format and it has a lot of useful patchpoints. then there is Synthesizers.com which compliment the Foogers like they were made in the same factory.

I would go for the Arturia Drumbrute as well, it's a well laid out analog drum machine with individual outs to put fx on. I had the Prophet 6, and it's a really good synth. If you're not looking to spend too much money, the Prophet 08 is also a very good poly analog synth.


Regards

N.

[quote="stiiiiiiive"]Welcome to the forum, glad to see you're so much in your passion

I am myself a old Elektron user as I've played a MachineDrum UW for 8-9 years now. I've read once ot twice somebody not clicking with an Elektron instrument, but generally speaking, I've met users in love.
Most of the functions, key combos etc make sense. The machine is quite immediate to tame eventhough the possibilities are not the simplest.
The MDUW has cool sampling features, i.e. don't expect 128 MB, there are only 2, but the live sampling capabilities are such a fun! Or you can use one shot drums (normally short) samples.
If you absolutely aim at analogue, consider the Analog Rytm.
Their user manuals are available on the Elektron website, just saying

I love the Elecktron Analog Rhythm. Ut just seems a little too deep programming at the moment because I am still trying to learn the Sub 37. Thankfully both Groove3.com and Macprovideo.com both now have a 3 hour tutorial made up of probably 40 videos going into every possible aspect of the Sub 37. I really believe that unless I fully understand the Sub-37 , all the other gear will never make sense. So That is why I was thinking about new Artuia machine.

But hear is the rub. I get amazing discounts from an online music retailer as I have spent $40K with them in past 16 years. This retailer had me on the phone with their top MID synth guy who understand s everything about analog and digital signal flow and he said if it was him, knowing the gear I have, he would wait on the drum machine and pick up the Artuia Beatstep Pro which is an external sequencer that outputs MIDI and CV. He said that will bring me so much more enjoyment and functionality with the gear I have and to wait on a drum machine. . Does this make sense to you? I did order the prophet 6, and two more moogerfoogers which was cluster flux and ring modulator. I also did order the Beatstep Pro. My analog rig is pretty much done except for a drum machine in the future.

FYI....I am a semi pro, soon to be pro guitarist of 40 years and also play MIDI guitar. I can control my Moog with my MIDI guitar controller which is about as cool as it can get. I also started keyboard lessons as I want to play keys as my second instrument.

Your mate said it all: if it was him. However if you feel you need (or would glad to own) a drum machine, get one a pin a smile upon your face! You can consider his suggestions of course, and balance this and that.

I’m only going through open doors here: you have to listen to your desire (isn’t that a song?...). If you’re not a professional, it all comes down to fun