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Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:04 pm
by Numans2
Hi I'm probably missing something simple, but how do you apply velocity sensitivity to the keyboard?
Cheers
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:13 pm
by paul_sub37
You can do it via the mod busses or the envelopes:
1) for the mod busses, you can use VELOCITY as a mod src for MOD 1 or MOD 2 (remembering that MOD 1 amount is affected by the mod wheel position by default). In the controllers menu for each mod bus you can also set the percentage that velocity affects that busses overall modulation in the same way as you can set how the mod wheel affects the modulation.
this is covered in the manual on page 50.
2) you can also alter the filter/amp (volume) envelopes sensitivty to velocity:
Manual page 32:
VEL AMT
When the KNOB SHIFT button is blinking you can use the FILTER DECAY knob (now FILTER VELOCITY AMOUNT) to make your sounds get darker as you press the keys slower on the keyboard, and brighter as you press the keys faster. The knob’s range varies from 0% to 100%. Note that the highest velocity always gives the full amount, and that higher knob values affect the softer velocities, which makes them deliver lower amounts.
Manual page 33:
VEL AMT
When the KNOB SHIFT button is blinking you can use the AMP SUSTAIN knob (now AMP VELOCITY AMOUNT) to make your sounds get quieter as you press the keys slow on the keyboard, and louder as you press the keys faster. The knob’s range varies from 0% to 100%. Note that the highest velocity always gives the full amount, and that higher knob values affect the softer velocities, which makes them deliver lower amounts.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:48 am
by Numans2
Hi thanks for taking the time to reply and not just say rtfm, I had found the part on the mod busses, but not the others which is what I wanted, not listed in the index so didn't know where to look!
Cheers Tim
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:16 am
by benbravo
Hi,
I would love to use this velocity functionality of the SUB37, but I happen to struggle a lot with it...
While playing, I am very quickly hitting the highest velocity values (120-127), which make the velocity mapping function almost unnoticeable, because always hitting the ceiling... I don't even play THAT hard, and never had this problem on other synths. Trying to use the SUB37 as MIDI keyboard for controlling plugins is then quite a mess...
I am curious if other SUB37 owners have experienced the same problem ?
Thanks & cheers,
Ben
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:31 pm
by MaxFerency
I've not had that problem and I use the Sub37 as the main midi controller for my workstation. What I like about the VEL AMT knob is how you can fine tune it to how sensitive you want it to be.
I hope this doesn't sound too douchy but there is a lot of value in being able to play soft. Practicing scales at ff as well as pp can make a big difference.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:32 pm
by benbravo
Ok, thanks for the input. I'm starting to think my sub37 might have a problem, maybe I should have it checked.
anyone else having experience on this issue??
oh, and:
MaxFerency wrote:I hope this doesn't sound too douchy but there is a lot of value in being able to play soft. Practicing scales at ff as well as pp can make a big difference.
...was indeed unnecessary.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:11 am
by MaxFerency
Sorry. :-/ I still enjoy practicing scales and didn't intend for that to come off as rude as it did.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:17 am
by benbravo
No problem!
I happen to be a professional jazz pianist and know the ins and outs of practicing scales which I also still do and enjoy!
Out of the blue, your remark sounded a bit professorial and out of context, just wanted to let you know, although it seems you didn't mean it. That's the problem with this kind of communication... Cheers!
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:26 am
by benbravo
Here's a chart of my playing of a 2 octaves chromatic scale on the SUB37 and other various keyboards I own. I tried to play with the same intention on every keyboard.
- Sub 37 and friends, velocity chart
Any comments? Seems to be a serious calibration problem, right? Anyone else getting that kind of values?
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:27 pm
by braddo
Nice data analysis! Internet of keyboards lol.
What tool are you using to capture and visualize the data?
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:49 pm
by MaxFerency
Haha, love the chart. I wonder if that's a something that could be fixed in future firmware or not.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:12 pm
by benbravo
I got email contact with Amos from Moog in the meantime. Here's what he says about it:
I may not be able to fix this immediately, meaning as a part of the soon-to-be-completed current round of firmware changes, which we are trying to wrap up in time for the Editor release (which is planned for late January “or so”). This is because I am hesitant only to change the default behaviour, in case there are users who prefer it… I think the only valid change is to add user-selectable options of which the legacy velocity response is one, and new/improved velocity curves are added. This requirement makes it a larger task.
It is, however, an important one, and something that I will make it a priority to implement as soon as I can.
Seems like this is the normal behavior of the sub 37 for now. Hope it won't take too long to fix it! I'm surprised this bug only comes out now.
As for making the chart I simply used MidiMonitor to record the values, copy/paste into Excel, deleted unrelevant infos and there you go!
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:06 pm
by DrJustice
paul_sub37 wrote:...
Manual page 32:
VEL AMT
When the KNOB SHIFT button is blinking you can use the FILTER DECAY knob (now FILTER VELOCITY AMOUNT) to make your sounds get darker as you press the keys slower on the keyboard, and brighter as you press the keys faster. The knob’s range varies from 0% to 100%. Note that the highest velocity always gives the full amount, and that higher knob values affect the softer velocities, which makes them deliver lower amounts.
...
Looks like an error in he manual: it should read
FILTER SUSTAIN knob.
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:15 pm
by pribeh
I have experienced this without question. Thanks for verifying this. I would wager that the default keyboard velocity mapping should be more akin to other keyboards on the market but if Amos and company make it a global setting it won't be a pain to switch it. I look forward to some more velocity!
Re: Sub 37 velocity
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:01 am
by CrisHendrix
I'm also having a velocity issue with my Sub 37, is it certain that every model is like this? I've used a lot of other controllers before and don't remember having this much of an issue with velocity.