. Has anyone heard from the Moog camp why they have abandoned the variable sustain?? 50 years of envelopes and this is the first damn toggle switch. Even the limited Minitaur has a variable sustain. I was hoping to avoid buying other manufacturer's envelope to add to this to cover a design flaw. I know I'm being harsh but Moog should know better. Is this to bump you into a future envelope purchase? Then I'll have my rack with a single damn envelope dangling from the side of each M32? Nope.M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
I received 2 M32s less than a week ago and am flabbergasted that the EG has a toggle switch instead of a variable sustain. I was concerned but ordered anyway, hoping there was a sound reasoning for which this could be addressed. Brassy style envelopes are impossible. You are limited to fast slow decay or organ style sustain with decay. With the sustain toggle up, the filter and amplifier go to full-on where the cutoff is set. Very limiting in a sound design sense despite the patch bay. I have 2 in my 3 tier rack and was going to get a 3rd, but the envelope issue just hobbles the M32 in my opinion. I'll keep it at 2 now, thank you . Has anyone heard from the Moog camp why they have abandoned the variable sustain?? 50 years of envelopes and this is the first damn toggle switch. Even the limited Minitaur has a variable sustain. I was hoping to avoid buying other manufacturer's envelope to add to this to cover a design flaw. I know I'm being harsh but Moog should know better. Is this to bump you into a future envelope purchase? Then I'll have my rack with a single damn envelope dangling from the side of each M32? Nope.
. Has anyone heard from the Moog camp why they have abandoned the variable sustain?? 50 years of envelopes and this is the first damn toggle switch. Even the limited Minitaur has a variable sustain. I was hoping to avoid buying other manufacturer's envelope to add to this to cover a design flaw. I know I'm being harsh but Moog should know better. Is this to bump you into a future envelope purchase? Then I'll have my rack with a single damn envelope dangling from the side of each M32? Nope.Re: M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
What you're calling a design flaw is, in fact, a design choice. That choice may have been influenced by cost, but it was implemented on purpose.
A more complicated envelope would have required another knob or two, more circuitry... so which current M-32 feature would you give up for it? And do you think the lack of that sacrificial feature would cause zero dissatisfaction?
The fact is the M-32 is not a deeply complex synth voice on it's own. The open ecosystem of eurorack is the answer to anyone's question about a "missing" feature. Yes, it has a simple A/D envelope. It also only has a single oscillator - I hear more about that than the envelope.
The M-32 could have also included accurate volt per octave tracking of the cutoff and LFO rate. But that was also left off for cost/complexity.
It's simply not possible for any company to make something that will receive zero complaints, or "helpful suggestions." (which on analog hardware, after it's already been designed and produced, is pretty much a complaint.)
The popularity of the Mother-32 is a testament to it's well received sound, features, and form factor. There's a lot is does not do or have. I didn't buy it for those things. I didn't buy it to make a brass poly patch. I bought it two make weird acid, space noise, sequencer blips, and to have fun.
A more complicated envelope would have required another knob or two, more circuitry... so which current M-32 feature would you give up for it? And do you think the lack of that sacrificial feature would cause zero dissatisfaction?
The fact is the M-32 is not a deeply complex synth voice on it's own. The open ecosystem of eurorack is the answer to anyone's question about a "missing" feature. Yes, it has a simple A/D envelope. It also only has a single oscillator - I hear more about that than the envelope.
The M-32 could have also included accurate volt per octave tracking of the cutoff and LFO rate. But that was also left off for cost/complexity.
It's simply not possible for any company to make something that will receive zero complaints, or "helpful suggestions." (which on analog hardware, after it's already been designed and produced, is pretty much a complaint.)
The popularity of the Mother-32 is a testament to it's well received sound, features, and form factor. There's a lot is does not do or have. I didn't buy it for those things. I didn't buy it to make a brass poly patch. I bought it two make weird acid, space noise, sequencer blips, and to have fun.
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Re: M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
I guess I was very tired (3am posting) and it came off harsher than i wanted. I do agree to a point, and a brassy sound is not the be all/end all for a synth. It's a choice of the synthesist to make wacky space sounds or to add a musical phrase to a track, the choice is dictated by the music being presented. I know a lot of Moog enthusiasts would be unhappy with this post. I am Moog's biggest fan. Having met Bob and worked with him once for hours at a clinic years ago (the man's ears were amazing at hearing detail! I'm still in awe). I am Moog's biggest fan, since the 80's. They are an amazing, trailblazing company, but I also am not blinded by the love and will call them out when needed. If wacky sounds are the M32's sole purpose, then there is a glut of modules and circuit bent items to choose from and the M32 is not needed. If this is to be a MUSICAL instrument, then it needs to have the BASIC musical tools. There wouldn't be anything "left out" if the variable sustain was added to it. A Potentiometer in place of a switch. That function isn't just used for brassy type patches, either. That's just the bread and butter description of the variable sustain function. Sometimes these choices are made to encourage and upgrade to another model. Maybe there's something coming, I don't know. Like a child, I love these M32s, despite the issues! I was hoping someone had some insight as to why after 50+ years the sustain pot was not used.
Re: M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
I guess I could use the second M32 as the sustain with a lower filter and have the first M32 as the brighter attack/decay fading into the second M32's sound. Now I think I see the reasoning... to get me to buy more Moogs. Arrrgh, the wallet doth protest!
Re: M32 envelope design (what where they thinking?)
Is it just a matter of replacing the switch with a pot? Then it should be a pretty straightforward DIY project. I can give it a try with my Werkstatt.
Moog stuff: Slim Phatty, Minitaur, Mother-32, Werkstatt x2, MF-103, MF-104M, MF-108M
Running Moog software on Win7 64-bit
Dreams of a Voyager XL some day...
Running Moog software on Win7 64-bit
Dreams of a Voyager XL some day...