Moog Music Forum

Hey All,
This is my first post here, though I've read many posts. So, I have a question coming from an absolute beginner (well, I've been at it for a couple of years, but it's all still new to me). I have a slim phatty, mf-104, mf-102, and mf-105. I want to expand the sonic options and am debating between a cp-251 and the new mother-32. I'm just not sure how much I can have the mother and the phatty interact--I like the access to a sequencer and patching capabilities, as well as future expansion, but the cp-251 is already set up for the foogers. They aren't that far apart in cost, so I'm wondering about bang for the buck and interactivity. Any help is very appreciated and thanks in advance!

As a fellow Noob, I'm interested in opinions on this as well. Thanks!

Apples & Oranges -

The Mother-32 is a full-fledged synthesizer voice plus what appears to be a very full-featured step sequencer.
The CP-251 is a signal processor & LFO source.

Both would be compatible and very useful with a growing collection of CV-equipped Moog (or other brand) equipment ~
(To use your current gear with the Mother-32, you would need a handful of 1/8" to 1/4" adapter cables - NOT a huge investment by any means!)

Both will have a bit of a learning curve to get the most out of them.
The Mother-32 might tend to provide more immediate "musical results", but both are very powerful.

Very different equipment with very different purposes ~
You'll need to decide what you want to be able to accomplish with your next purchase.

Save up and get both -
They will both work great with your current gear, AND with each other!

FWIW -

If I didn't already have my analog sequencer bases covered, I would definitely be tempted to add the Mother-32 to the mix.
I already have the CP-251 - and glad I do!!

Thanks a million, Stuka!

That actually helps me a lot. I do have a Korg SQ-1, but it seems a bit limited in terms of its uses. I also like the idea of having two synths. I can't afford both at this point, but I also love the idea of future expansion for the mother-32 as well as syncing them both together. It's certainly a fun choice to make!

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the M-32 will show up first...

Have fun, regardless of the decision!!

Stuka wrote:If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the M-32 will show up first...

Have fun, regardless of the decision!!

Ha! You may very well be right, Stuka.

Thanks for the info Stuka! I knew that they were both designed for different purposes, but you answered my question of if/how the Mother-32 can be used as a controller as well (like the CP-251).

Although I definitely see where having both would be REALLY nice......................

Plus, the M-32 makes for a fine MIDI -> CV converter.

You'll have more fun with (and will be able to get more mileage out of) a mother-32 than a cp-251.

The Mother will let you send sequences to the inputs on your Moogerfoogers and your Slim, let you send LFOs, let you do some basic CV signal mixing (for example, to mix together and then send out the wiggles that you get from the sequencer with the wiggles that you get from the LFO), use the oscillator as a high speed LFO (for FM style metallic stuff), send out noise, send out sequenced gate signals for triggering the envelopes of your slim or to step your MuRF through its sequence, send out basic envelopes (Mom doesn't have a full ADSR, only attack and decay with optional sustain to hold notes like an organ when playing keys), send out random voltages (not a true sample and hold, but random voltages per step of the step sequencer when it's running), and any midi CC that you have programmed it to convert from the midi in.

The cp-251 has no sequencer (obviously), it doesn't make tones on its own save for the noise source (obviously), it doesn't generate envelopes, and it doesn't generate oscillations fast enough to do FM with, really. What it does have, however, are four inputs for CV mixing (Mom only has two), a dedicated sample and hold circuit for making random voltage not tied to a sequencer, two dedicated attenuators (Mom only has one, and that's if you use the CV mixer as an attenuator), and a lag processor (which is useful for turning stepped random voltage into smooooth random voltage, for instance, or for turning that square wave LFO into a saw or ramp lfo).

I don't feel that you lose a lot by going Mother over CP-251: you can improvise sample and hold by combining the sequencer with the patchbay, and you can get crafty or judicious with your patches to work around the other benefits you'll lose by not having a cp-251. With the Mother, however, you gain considerable ground over the cp-251——more than you would expect given only a $300 price difference, in my opinion.

Addendum 1: If you are not opposed to involving your computer, and have a computer with a DC coupled audio interface (motu 828, for instance), you can do a lot of CV stuff with a laptop, almost completely replacing the CP-251. Check out Expert Sleepers or CV toolkit. Reaktor 6 also has some built in options if you happen to own that software, as does Max for Live. Check out out their respective user libraries/forums for guidance.

Addendum 2: If all the above is greek to you, you have two options for moving forward in your CV knowledge: Buy the Mother first and really force yourself to learn the CV. While you learn, at least you'll have a synth to sing along with your existing setup. One might also argue that you should buy the CP-251 first to learn CV with. That's how I learned, and it also taught me the limitations of my slim phatty / fooger setup.

Addendum 3: Seriously, buy both if you can swing it

midilifestyle,
You not only answered my question, you taught me quite a bit. I thank you humbly!

And I've definitely decided: the mother ship will land before the cp.

No problem! Let us know how it comes along

Same here!!! Thanks midilifestyle for the in-depth comparison! Also, great tip, _DemonDan_!

I can see where learning the subtle and not-so-subtle in's and out's of all this gear is going to be half the fun!

THX5 wrote:Same here!!! Thanks midilifestyle for the in-depth comparison! Also, great tip, _DemonDan_!

I can see where learning the subtle and not-so-subtle in's and out's of all this gear is going to be half the fun!

Yeah, be careful, sometimes it's more fun than making actual music

I've gotten to the point where I just own the fact that I like tinkering with the gear, sometimes more so than making new tunes.

midilifestyle wrote:
Yeah, be careful, sometimes it's more fun than making actual music

I've gotten to the point where I just own the fact that I like tinkering with the gear, sometimes more so than making new tunes.

I went into synths with this as a key goal. I like looking at them like they're some sort of spaceship console on my desk. I also like making awesome interstellar noises, so it's absolutely win/win!

Just an update--it took a couple of months to get one, but I finally did, and it's a blast, particularly with the foogers. I'm trying to figure out ways to really get it to work with my slim phatty, and I'm realizing I'll need a lot more cables, which is great fun. Thanks again for the help!