Moog Music Forum

So I've had my sub37 for a few months now. I feel like I know most of it's features pretty well. In an effort to familiarize myself with all the 37's capabilities I wanted to give the "CTRL 4 AMT" a go. "CTRL 4 AMT" is an option under the MODs "CONTROLLERS". It can be set from -100% to +100%. From what I understand this feature is used to control one of the MOD sources depth from an external midi device. The default control change (?) the midi will be received on is 2. This is slightly confusing to me. Could someone explain how I would go about using this ctrl amt 4? If possible, an example would be awesome.

NOTE: I know (obviously) that I would need to send midi messages form another device (or virtual device). Most likely a controller of sorts. Would I have to specify/set the particular controller to send it's midi messages to the control change 2? Is a control change like a channel? This is where I am lost.

Thanks for any help. I love my 37 and want to learn everything it can do!

Hi bubblebobble ( I'd forgoton about that cool game - used to play it all the time),

I hope I can shed some light for you.

A "midi CC" or "Continuous Controller" is a type of midi message which can be used to control parameters of an instrument that is able to recieve such messages.

Some of the most common midi CC's are those used to control an instruments release or mod wheel. I don't remember which exact CC numbers are used for this but lets say CC 01 controls the release amount. Instead of using a pedal plugged into a keyboard to control release we could simply send midi messages from our DAW or any other device which can transit midi messages to do this instead. We would program our DAW or midi device to transmit this CC 1 with values between 0-127 on the relevant midi channel. If we sent CC1 with a value of 0 the release would be at minimum - if we sent CC1 with a value of 127 then the release would be set to maximum.

Using CC's can be very handy for controlling multiple parameters at once or if you don't have any/enough pedals for example. You can use a midi track from you DAW to send many CC's to your instrument all at once affecting volume. filter cutoff, lfo rates, attack...etc

In the back of your Sub37 manual it has a table to show you which CC numbers will affect which of the 37's parameters.

By default the CNTRL 4 AMT is controlled by CC2 (breath control) - so to change the CNTRL4 AMT you will need to send CC2 with values 0-127 from your DAW or midi controller on the right midi channel (channel 1 by default). Its not much different from sending note-on/note-off data.

Hope this helps ;D

Thanks for the detailed response chilam. That helped a bunch. I just read up on midi CC. And, forgive me, but I'm trying to understand this a bit better.

If cc02 is "breath control" could I also send midi data from a mod wheel on this channel? Would that even make sense? Or is the sub37 set up to interpret cc02 messages in a particular way because it is expecting a breath control?

Also, how would I set up a controller to send midi over this channel? I use Ableton mostly. I know how to send "regular" midi to an external instrument (easy enough). But I'm not sure how I would specifically send cc02 for a specified controller. (am i even thinking of this correctly? forgive my ignorance)

Sure! - you could set up a mod wheel, fader, knob, key, button....any kind of physical controller to send a CC2 message. Most midi keyboards will let you change the CC number which is attached to a particular knob, button, slider...ect

Sorry, I'm not au fait with Ableton (Cubase user here) but its pretty similar on all DAWs.

You would need to create a midi track and instead of inserting note data you send CC data -just make sure your sending on the right channel too. In Cubase there is another lane underneath the note lane where you can draw the CC data into. Probably should have a quick look in the Ableton manual or maybe another user can help you with the specifics here?

You seem to be thinking about it right. Its just a system that lets you have more control over parameters.
CC"x" lets me change the "y" parameter of an instrument. Lets you automate or have realtime control over things. Or a bit like a universal remote control for your TV and Video but for your synths and midi speaking devices.

As ChiLam explained, midi cc messages are continuous controllers. They all go from 0 to 127. The fact that it is called breath control doesn't really mean that it expects to receive a specific type of data, that goes back to the early days of General Midi where most controllers were given a name. General Midi was set up as a standard so that every piece of equipment was set with the same set of controllers.
Now the beauty of controller 4 in the sub 37 is that it is freely assignable and not tied to a specific thing. Although most controls in the 37 are already mapped to a specific cc there are certain things that you might want to control that are not directly mapped. Just one of the things that makes this synth huge.

mattyp wrote:General Midi was set up as a standard so that every piece of equipment was set with the same set of controllers.
Now the beauty of controller 4 in the sub 37 is that it is freely assignable and not tied to a specific thing. Although most controls in the 37 are already mapped to a specific cc there are certain things that you might want to control that are not directly mapped.

Hi mattyp,

Just a clarification. It's important to understand that the CTRL4 AMT parameter (in the MOD 1 CONTROL and MOD 2 CONTROL pages found by pressing either CONTROLLERS button) works the same as the MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY, and AFTERTOUCH parameters above it.

In other words, the CTRL4 AMT parameter adjusts the modulation depth for the PITCH AMT, FILTER AMT, and MOD AMT knobs' values.

CTRL4 is not freely assignable to any desired Sub 37 parameter. It simply controls the depth of all the choices already made in that particular MOD section.

It's the MOD 1 DEST and MOD 2 DEST buttons that allow you to freely choose any of the 89 available MOD Destinations.

control 4 will be assignable before long

right now it's hardwired to MIDI CC 2, but soon you will be able to choose some additional "control sources" for CTRL 4.
only a few additional choices at first... but there is room for expansion (as there usually is where almost anything with the Sub 37 is concerned)

Dan, maybe i should have made that clearer. Freely assignable to the available controls that it can be assigned to. Or something like that.
Amos, that will be awesome.

Thanks for all the info guys, greatly appreciated. Amos, that sounds great. As if this thing isn't beastly enough you guys keep working to "expand" it. Amazing. Can't Wait.