Moog Music Forum

Hi All,

The 90+ Modulation Destinations on the Sub 37 open up entirely new areas of programming.

A few things that will help:

1. Remember that, if any of the MOD (1 or 2) CONTROLLERS have their values higher than 0%, you will never get your modulations to be full on unless those particular controllers are maxed.

2. If you're sending to a destination that can also be modulated by something else (knob, switch, etc.) the two values will be added. This can be very useful; but it can also be confusing if you're not aware of it.

Example: Lets say that you want to use a Square Wave LFO to modulate OSC 2 ON. You'd imagine that, as soon as you start sending the square wave to OSC 2 ON, the OSC 2 LED in the MIXER should start flashing. But... If you already have the OSC 2 ON LED lit, nothing will happen. That's because the square wave is trying to push the ON button "farther than ON". Instead, try setting the OSC 2 ON button to OFF. Now you'll see it flashing. Alternatively, you could leave OSC 2 ON lit, but turn the MOD 2 AMT knob counterclockwise to send negative square wave to OSC 2 ON. With Square Waves it doesn't really matter. But, if you try doing that with a LOOPing FILT EG, you'll find that one polarity can be closer to what you wanted in terms of when OSC 2 is ON or OFF.

3. Adding a partial value to a MOD CONTROLLER that you aren't using (especially CTRL4 AMT) is a useful way to make all three AMT knobs less powerful, and easier to fine tune.

4. CONSTANT ON as a MOD Source is the best way (currently) to get a CONTROLLER to directly modulate your chosen Destinations. After choosing CONSTANT ON as your MOD Source and choosing your Destinations, you can then add a percentage to MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY, AFTERTOUCH, or CTRL4 AMT. (To keep yourself sane, just use one CONTROLLER per MOD until you really get the feel of it.)

5. Don't always set your MOD CONTROLLER to 100%. My methodology for setting modulation depths is to first set MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY, AFTERTOUCH, or CTRL4 AMT all at 0%. Now set all three MOD AMTs (PITCH, FILTER, MOD) to the *maximum* values (positive or negative) that you want to hear. Now (let's assume you want to use MOD WHEEL) put the actual MOD WHEEL all the way down and start increasing the percentage until you hear the *minimum* amount of modulation you want to hear.

Again, don't always default to 100%. Example: If you set up a vibrato with a TRI LFO to PITCH, you might find that a percentage less than 100% can give you just enough subtle motion to keep the oscillators sounding more alive and vibrant without actually sounding like vibrato.

6. Try forcing the Sub 37 to act like two synthesizers. The trick is maximizing the use of all tools that let you do something to one OSC, but not the other: The OSC 1 + 2 buttons under GLIDE TIME, the OSC 1 + 2 buttons under PITCH AMT, the OSC 1 WAVE + OSC 2 WAVE DEST, KB CTRL LO + HI in DUO, SUB LEV, OSC 1 LEV, OSC 2 LEV, OSC 1 ON, SUB ON, OSC 2 ON, OSC 1 OCT, OSC 2 OCT, OSC 2 FREQ, and BEND DEST 1, and BEND DEST 2.

By using a Saw LFO (or Filter EG) to OSC 2 LEV, for example, you can create a separate VCA effect for that oscillator. Just remember that the longer-length OSC needs to use the regular AMP EG since both OSCs will run through it. (Nothing will sound longer than the AMP EG allows as it's the last thing in the audio path.)

7. Be aware that MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY, AFTERTOUCH, and CTRL4 AMT are all multiplying against each other for your total modulation depth. Example: If you have a typical vibrato, and set MOD WHEEL to 100%, then there will be no vibrato if the MOD WHEEL is all the way down. (Makes sense, so far...) But, if you also set the AFTERTOUCH to 100% then you will get no vibrato if either the MOD WHEEL is all the way down *AND/OR* you're not pressing Aftertouch at all. That's because any value times zero is still going to be zero. (This is why I recommend using only one CONTROLLER per MOD until you really get it.)

8. Any time you're trying to figure out a complex modulation, start by only assigning it to PITCH AMT. Our ears/brain are best suited for recognizing changes and patterns in pitch far more than timbre, amplitude, or other parameters. After you've figured out what it's doing, then assign it to the actual destination you want.

Hope this is of some use...

Awesome, Dan, just coming to grips with some of this, so your missive really helps I find myself staring at the 37 for long periods w/o doing anything but think - just like on my modular!

Great tips- should be in the manual.

Twice this week I've gotten stuck wondering what the heck I did wrong with the Mod 1 bus only to later realize I had the Mod Wheel all the way down. Much to learn and these tips are a huge help, thanks!

I'm still not experienced enough with modulation, getting the oscillators and filter sounding right are what I'm most comfortable with so far. May have to ask some questions as I get into it!

Great post! It's always good to keep all these points in mind. Sometimes I miss some of these and think my unit is malfunctioning. It's all working fine, just not my synth brain.

Hi _DemonDan_ and many thanks for the tips! I've been reading the Sound Synthesis & Sampling book by Martin Russ and I find it very educational, however, it is covering more of a basic stuff about synthesis. The tips that you've posted, is exactly what I'm looking for!

Could you please give me an advice for a good and more in-depth book or tutorials/videos about synthesis?

Many thanks

*Bump* Because this thread is just too good to scroll away!

Thanks Dan! Everyday, I go into the Sub37 and try out new mod routings, and new ways of asking the Sub to do more than mono. Cracked me up the night I came up with a sound simulating the ocean, two whales singing, and finally seagulls flying by on occasion.

Is there anyway to have lfo 1 or 2 rate as a mod destination? I can't find it in the manual or minue.

Jeffery&wayne wrote:Is there anyway to have lfo 1 or 2 rate as a mod destination? I can't find it in the manual or minue.

There is button under MOD 1/2 DEST that allows one MOD to change the rate of the other MOD.

Here my one cent ...

FM modulating the resonant VCF (very simple patch with wow-factor)

here we go: ... but be aware that messing around with self resonance, Feedback and Multidrive can result in high audio peaks. So reduce the output volume first

1) switch all sound generators off
2) set the VCF response to the filter EG to zero (for the beginning, because cutoff and resonance are tuning the sound)
3) get the VCF in self resonance and apply a suited amplitude EG to get this beautiful bellish "pling"
4) set up LFO 1 to high frequency mode and modulate the cutoff until a second tone is clearly audible (do this with triangle waveshape or Sine, LFO frequency, and the amount of cutoff modulation, it's hot spice so dose carefully with fingertips)
5) set up LFO 2 to high too and modulate the frequency of LFO 1 (it's also hot spice, try tiny dose first)

alternatively to 5) you can also directly modulate the VCF cutoff with LFO 2 for a different sound character

Try all of this and tweek until you like it - I guess you will - and - this way, there are many useful and interesting sounds to be discovered .

And don't forget, we had the other sound generators switched off at the beginning. Now add those and the VCF-EG for many more soundshapes. You should also try to spice it up with the Feedback and the Multidrive. It's incredible fun, if you like the bells of Heaven or Hell .

Happy tweeking and enjoy your patches.

MoogProg wrote:

Jeffery&wayne wrote:Is there anyway to have lfo 1 or 2 rate as a mod destination? I can't find it in the manual or minue.

There is button under MOD 1/2 DEST that allows one MOD to change the rate of the other MOD.

Oh! Thank you! I was trying to use the filter env to change the rate, so I would have to use the other mod as a go between

Thanks for the tips 'Dan .. copied and pasted and printed out here


R.