Moog Music Forum

Hello,

ok I need to crosspost something here. It's directly relevant to Moog so I hope you will enjoy it. I certainly did


> !! Who thought the first was the A6?

I'm glad you asked that question. Here's the detailed answers anyone
can check the archive for (like I just did):

In chronological order:

Pat (enmach@aol.com) Picks sample one (MiniMoog), thinks it's probably the A6, but doesn't totally commit a guess.

Matthew Davidson (matthew@blank.org) Picked A6 as better sounding clip, does not guess which synth is which.

Paul Wagorn (paul@wagorn.com) Picks A6 as better sounding clip, and incorrectly guessing it's the Mini, says "The first sounds like my a6 & the second sounds like my mini no doubt about it".

Chuck (vogelcheiss@vogelcheiss.com) Does not pick which is better, but thinks the Mini is the A6, saying: "Yeah, I'd assign the first to the A6 based on the narrowness and relative non-thump of the attack." He later on very gently tries to wiggle out of his previous vote, but it's too late mwahahaha.

Ryan Lunenfeld (Ahal3001@hotmail.com), Who I might add is known to hate the A6 after owning it, says it's not his programming skills, says it is the fault of A6's sub-par sound, picks....can you guess it folks? He picks the Andromeda 6 as the winner! He states: "I agree with Matthew, I also really prefer the 2nd one. the first one sounds like it distorts too much remixer the sounds aren't too similar imho.. they seem actually quite ifferent? hrm i just really don't like the first one lol:-) if it's the mini, it's a bad mini!:-D"

You don't say Ryan, you don't say? By the way, thanks for the great new e-mail sig. I will treasure it for a long time to come

I (Fast - vampeiyre@earthlink.net) Pick Mini as sounding better by a narrow margin, but I think it's the A6! Whoa! I pick Mini (thinking it's A6) as having a sharper attack, saying A6 has too much low-bass, the sort of
which I cut 1-3db off of to make room for drums in my tunes.

Matrix (matrixsynth@hotmail.com) Picks Mini as winner, but does not guess which synth is which.

Fiercefish (fiercefish@btinernet.com) Picks the Mini as the better synth, but thinks it is the A6.

Oh (ohersch@web.de) Doesn't guess which synth is which, but says first clip (Mini) sounds like a 4-pole filter whereas second (A6) sounds like a 2-pole filter. I'm guessing this is his non-committal way of saying clip one sounds better without having to commit to a solid guess and being embarrassed if he's wrong? Just kidding OH, thanks for playing!

Geoff Moehrke (gmoehrke@execpc.com) Picks first clip (Mini) but does not guess which synth is which.

Doof (doof@deepflux.com) - Picks first clip (Mini), does not guess which synth is which, and remarks on difference being very subtle.

David Bartz (bartzomatic@toast.net) Guesses after the fact, but has the guts to admit he picked the A6 as sounding better, thinking it is the Mini. Jeff Farr (moogah@gmail.com) is disqualified, for bravely proclaiming the Mini the winner, but doing so ONLY AFTER the answer has already been revealed

Scott Metzger (scottmeztzger3d@hotmail.com), the fellow who inspired the contest, did not make a guess (I know that makes ME wonder) and after the fact states: "I don't think this is the best sound test to compare..." Since it was a random sound from a random source, why is it not a good sound test? Isn't that EXACTLY what a blind (err.....deaf) test is? He further states: "When I get home I will record a bass patch from the voyager. and then someone can try to replicate it with the andy. I don't think you will come ever close to the Voyager."

Well Scott, we already did that. And, of all the people who voted, it was an even split, so we KNOW the A6 can get EXTREMELY close, some people MISTAKING IT for the MiniMoog. So then, why is it you didn't make a guess til after the answer was revealed...? I picked the Mini as better, thinking it was the A6, ironically because I thought the MiniMoog had less bass and more bright bite. How about, if you DO make some bass patches to see if an A6 can match them, you mail them only to me or someone else with an A6 to try and match them, and then we'll send them to a third party to host, and we'll let people again blindly pick which is which? Since it's so obvious to you the Voyager will win, you'll have nothing to lose doing it that way, right? That way we can also make sure that you won't automatically declare the A6 the loser not matter what, since putting out the challenge and being the only voter would give you all the cards, wouldn't it? Or perhaps with more intelligence and maturity we can just forget another 'test' and not waste our time, since this will never end no matter what anyone does or guesses, you trying to start a new test proving that quite well.

To me, this is highly reminiscent of the debate on Pro Sound Web, where
a blind test was made to see what sounded better, Tape or Pro-Tools, and
Steve Albini whined after the fact that it was a draw. So to count that, it's an effective tie.

MiniMoog as better synth? 5 votes.
A6 as better synth? 4 votes.

HOWEVER:
3 explicitly stated they thought MiniMoog clip was the Andromeda 6
clip.

4 explicitly stated they thought the Andromeda 6 clip was the MiniMoog
clip.
2 people's votes are not being counted since they did not vote until
AFTER the answer was revealed.

Due to the nature of the results, (Mini got more votes for better
synth, A6 BEING GUESSED AS THE MINI by more people) it's likely fair to say both are functionally equal as bass synths, and no one will be able to pick which is which in a fully mixed tune.

It's also fair to say that since LESS THAN A DOZEN people submitted a guess on a list with SEVERAL HUNDRED subscribers, the VAST MAJORITY of people who praise the "Almighty Mini" and trash the "Overhyped A6" don't have the courage of their convictions (see: bravery) to make a committed guess which is which in a blind test. Or maybe more people actually do work at work...nah! : P

It's also fair to say some people have been given something to think about, since 4 people thought the A6 was the Mini, and 3 people thought the Mini was the A6. Most of them saying rather negative things about the Mini while thinking they were trashing the A6. Isn't that right Ryan? So in the end, it is as it always was: Use what works for you (for more concrete reasons or merely imaginary ones) and damn anyone else who disagrees with you

>>>>>>>FasT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Hrm i just really don't like the first one lol:-) if it's the mini, it's a bad ini!:-D" - Ryan Lunenfeld picking the Andromeda 6 over the MiniMoog. DOH!

So, as the title of the subject states "Trust your ears"

Thanks for that. That's interesting. And I'd agree - we need to trrust our ears, not our prejudices.

On the other hand I'm inclined to think a true test would involve several samples. I'm not clear about this one, but it read as if there may have been just the one pair of samples?

And there's also the issue of playability. A musician may prefer one synth over another because one feels right and stimulates him/her while the other one doesn't. So one synth may seem better simply because it really is better whenever that musician plays it. So programming ability (or lack of it) may not be the only factor in bringing about a preference. But a test like this should make people a bit more cautious about turning preferences into prejudices.

Which site did this originally appear on?

Now that is some funny stuff! Just proves that gear snobbery makes people look foolish.

Sweep wrote:Which site did this originally appear on?

It was a thread on AH.

So what is posting the results here supposed to do? Make us feel inferior?

How about a link to the sound files?

(Or -I've never understood this- is AH an email-only list?)

Info, please.

-Hoax

I'm sure it's not to make anyone feel inferior.

It just highlights the fact that there are some self-proclaimed sonic experts amongst us who can't tell their a#s from their elbow.

Ubersynths - we've all read it and heard it, most of us have spouted it at some point - but when it comes down to it it's very difficult to tell one analog from another when they are consciously patched to be the same type of sound.

I think that if we had the sounds (or made new ones) to do the comparison again, we'd find the same thing.

I for one would not be prepared to publically demonstrate that despite my love for both my A6 and my Voyager, I couldn't tell one from the other on similar patches.

The whole thing may well be a dig at that "I'd know my ###### anywhere because everything else is rubbish" brigade - and it might be a fair one because it shows they can't!

I'm always amazed that some synth heads keep comparing their other brands' sound to Moog. Now there's some G2 comparison making the rounds. Why can't these guys rave about how their synths have their own distinctive sound? And when these G2 and A6 "Moog" patches are tweaked on the fly with extreme wave form mods or filter changes, do they still sound like a Moog? That's what I like about the Voyager. You can tweak the heck out of and mangle the original patch, but in the end it still has a Moog vibe.

You know, I don't care which sounds like a mini or an A6. I didn't buy my Waldorf Q or my Ion because it can sound like a mini, nor did I buy my Voyager because it can sound like a model D mini. I bought them because they have sounds I like.

Another great thing about the Voyager is they way it handles: easy to tweak, responsive controls, tilted panel, simple menu, expandable. And then there's customer service. You never hear the Alesis, Roland, Korg, etc. people rave about customer service.

yeah, great customer service at Moog. amos rules...he always helps you out pronto.

mark

I'll second that. Three cheers for Amos!

-Hoax

make it 4 on that one!!

I have both the Andromeda and Voyager. Neither one "does" what the other does. EXCEPT in a small area where they can overlap. In these comparisons, they can be made to "overlap" but each can also make thousands of sounds with varying character.

I'd say the Voyager has an edge with playability, and the Andromeda has an edge with flexibility. Both are MONSTER synths, and truly kill all the 70's mass-marketed synths.

Has anyone got these files - I'd love to hear them.
Cheers,
Pete

I don't have these particular files but there was another A/B test done between the Andromeda and Model D. The sound files for that are here: http://share.ovi.com/album/juno6.Androm ... i?count=50

If you can read German the article is here: http://www.amazona.de/?page=26&file=2&article_id=2233 If you can't read German Google can probably butcher...I mean translate it for you.