Moogerfooger MF-104M vs Minifooger Delay

[wordsdrawnigh]

Sorry to fill the forum with these, but the post comparing the Mooger- and Mini-fooger Ring pedals has inspired me to seek out the opinion of others regarding this issue . I am really in love with my MF-102 (soon to get an MF-103), and have been wanting to get the MF-104M as well, but the price is really putting me off. Unlike with the Ring pedals, the MF-104 is 3 times the cost of the mini. For the price of the MF-104, one could easily acquire the Mini Delay and a CP-251. The CP-251 could, as I understand it, handle most of the LFO waveshapes provided by the MF-104 (though I guess you can never have too many LFOs). I don't particularly need MIDI or tap tempo. Is it really worth paying the extra for the feedback insert and the mix cv control? Is there anything else that I am overlooking?

I know Mini Delay isn't even out yet, but I am curious if anyone can discard any insight into this matter... Thanks!

[EMwhite]

Are you primarily a guitar player or keyboard?

If a keyboard player, do you play bass and lead lines in a traditional sense, or are you more in the experimental realm with drones and building walls of sonic mayhem?

Your point about cost and CP-251 is a good one. You should be able to model the modulation of the 104M FROM within the CP-251, meaning, you can effect time modulation with a combination of LFO (including S&H), attenuated and even waveform mixed or offset into the expression pedal input of the MF Delay. You just won't have the midi timing.

The effects loop, to me is not a big deal; I've had it on a few delays already and have yet to use it in any constructive way, your mileage may vary.

But assuming you are a keyboard player, or experimental musician, I think if I gave up the 104M, I would miss the built in spillover mod. You CAN however, do this from your mixing board without any issue but more equipment is required and more fumbling.

Personally, I'm on the fence about it; luckily I'm distracted with EVERYTHING so will just sit here paralyzed and give other people advice

[GovernorSilver]

It really depends on your individual needs.

I'm going for the Mini Delay because I don't need MIDI, effects loop, or any of the other extras on the MF-104M. I just want a good sounding analog delay to add a bit of ambience to my viola/electric violin.

[Alien8]

It really depends on your individual needs.

I'm going for the Mini Delay because I don't need MIDI, effects loop, or any of the other extras on the MF-104M. I just want a good sounding analog delay to add a bit of ambience to my viola/electric violin.

This is what it boils down to... Think of it this way... For the price of two new minis you could have one 104Z. What's the difference? Mix cv, gain control on the fx loop, a toggle between slow & fast, the fx loop, two outputs for delay. With two minis, you have stereo delay, or two delay times... Seems like a no brainier comparison, as the time is about equal. The tone will be slightly different...

Now look at the 104M. MIDI being the key factor here. If you don't need MIDI, tap temp or spillover, the Mini is a great deal on paper.

Do you have access to demo vids? Hands on demos? Are you planning on studio use?

I love the 104Z, the M seems neat. But if I were buying now, it would be a Mini.

[wordsdrawnigh]

Thanks for the help y'all! I'd personally be using the Delay for mostly keyboards, though guitar as well. Apparently the Minis are not designed to handle line level signals, though I imagine that won't be a very big deal. I was kind of annoyed to see that you need to remove the bottom plate to switch the CV control from time to feedback, though not exactly to the extent that it would be worth $400 for the convenience. I'm thinking I will probably go with the Mini. It's not like it'd be super hard to sell the thing if I feel the need to upgrade....

[GovernorSilver]

Apparently the Minis are not designed to handle line level signals, though I imagine that won't be a very big deal.

From what I understand, the input impedance of the Minis will handle line level just fine.

[Headphones]

I wouldn't let the Moog marketing fool you. Yeah, online they mention that the MInis are for Guitar/Bass, but clearly Sweetwater and Nova Music have proven they work for synths. Just saying.

I just picked up my MF-104m, and yes I love it. But, the only thing I don't like about it is you're ball and chained to the LFO and what freq you use it for. If the Mini-delay has no LFO, then I'm definately in. But I get where you're coming from. Yes, the MF-104m is expensive, and yes, you almost can buy 2-3 minis, or 1 mini+CP251 for the price of the MF-104m, but if you were to hear what the 104m can do, you'll see why it's worth the investment. Talk to your local shop, and get on a layaway plan. It was the only way I could get onboard to buy it, but I don't regret it. Now that I have it, it was worth the months of saving up what I could give them, and my shop wasn't really on my case if I couldn't make a payment one month. (As long as I threw em $20 bucks, they were cool).

But it's no big deal if you wish to start with a Mini-delay, because you'll definately get some use out of it, and all the extras you get with the MF-104m you can buy later. But the bucket brigade chips just make anything you throw at it go into insane dark, almost filtered pitched delays. Just a pure joy to listen to. The sample/hold even can turn a beat into glitch when those envelopes snap!!

I haven't decided if I want to pick up some minis, or go after a MF-108M next, or maybe picked up some used Foogers, but by the holidays, I can look into what I'm going to try next.

[stiiiiiiive]

I agree most of Headphones said.

I had the 104Z and tried to feed it some LFO in the Time CV input to go cho-chorus. I had hard time triying to get a subtle modulation (I should try again...).
I got the 104M and the modulation is... wow. Really, I cannot spend a rehearsal without looking at it and think "boy, you're so good sounding..." My point is I thought the 104M would be the same as a 104Z + modulation, but no.

The Minifooger delay must sound good too: bucket brigate and Moog how-to. But sometimes some details do the difference.

[wordsdrawnigh]

Yes, I think I've actually changed my mind from my last post and decided to save up for the 104M. I recently sold off most of my pedalboard to fund the purchase of 2 Moogerfoogers, and feel that, if anything, my sound palette has expanded. I started thinking about all the potential offered by the 104M's spillover mod, multiple simultaneous CV inputs, etc. Guess I'll be spending as little money as possible for a while...

[GovernorSilver]

Yes, I think I've actually changed my mind from my last post and decided to save up for the 104M. I recently sold off most of my pedalboard to fund the purchase of 2 Moogerfoogers, and feel that, if anything, my sound palette has expanded. I started thinking about all the potential offered by the 104M's spillover mod, multiple simultaneous CV inputs, etc. Guess I'll be spending as little money as possible for a while...

Note that in the other 'fooger forum on this site, there is an issue with MIDI sync or something like that on the MF-104M, on a thread started by kingringmod (I probably spelled his username wrong). It has yet to be fixed. Read up on his thread and see if it applies to your hypothetical situation.

[stiiiiiiive]

You won't regret I forgot the spillover: great.

The user in question is KingNimrod, I think.