Moog Music Forum

I've just taken delivery of an insert cable that I hoped would allow me to insert my MF 104M into Voyager's MIXER OUT / FILTER IN jack. Having problems. First of all the cable doesn't have labels 'tip' or 'ring', so I don't know which is which, but anyway I tried one in Audio IN and the other in MIX OUT or DELAY OUT until I could hear something in my cans.

I now get audio, so something is working, but only the LFO section and the DRIVE has any effect on the sound. The delay is inaudible. And yes, Bypass is on green. The level light stays on red.

Is the insert cable the wrong one, or have I misunderstood how it should connect with my Voyager?

There is no problem, the insert point just takes the raw oscillators after the mixer. There aren't any gates, filters or envelopes at this point. You might get some oscillator phasing effects though.

Sorry, I don't understand. Am I hoping for something that can't happen? I thought I'd hear delay.

It's the same effect as holding down a sustained note or chord, you will only hear echoes when you release the key. Then space is created for the repeats to echo away. There's an article on KnobTweak that investigates different effect combinations. Filters, exciters, distortion are all good if I remember.

If feedback on the delay is turned up you'd hear cascading echoes even with the keys pressed down.
Basically I thought that inserting a delay into the Voyager should allow the player to have delayed sound in the cans. Why I hear absolutely nothing of delay is mystery.

I understand the Feedback Insert is used to put another effect before it goes into the delay

I meant the feedback knob on the delay itself.

Back to my original post, I need to be able to plug a delay into the Voyager and hear it working together in the headphones.

In the Voyager, the oscillators + noise + external input + return of the insert go to the mixer section. The mixer section goes to the filter section. The whole signal passes then through the amplitude envelope.

Now, the insert you are using is made for taking the signal from the mixer section out and reinjecting it to the filter section. But don't forget that all of this ends in the amplitude envelope.

You press a key and trigger the envelope: the whole signal can be heared: oscillators + noise + external in + return of the insert. The later provides delay repetitions. But as soon as you depress the key, the envelope closes, making the whole signal disapear, including the delay repetitions obviously.
You may think that having a longer release on the amplitude envelope will do the trick but no because the oscillators are constantly running and they would bleed just as much as your delay into the VCA.

If you want to use a delay on you Voyager, connect it to the main output. Unless you plug you headphones on the delay itself you cannot do what you've described. Anyone correct me.

As far as I know, the MIX OUT / FILTER IN insert breaks the normalling from the total mixer output to the filter.

When you put a delay effect inline, you are sampling a free running oscillator (set by delay time). The period of sampling is many times slower than the frequency of the wave. Thus you take a copy of the wave and play it back on top of itself. You would have to stop the wave form to get any sort of "echo" effect. You might hear interesting things if the pitch or waveform changes drastically enough, or phasing cancellations with particular delay time settings. Also, stiiiiiiive is correct in that you only hear things when the gate is open (key down). The gate/envelope that you trigger to produce distinct notes has nothing to do with the oscillator mix that is going through the insert loop.

If you really need to hear delay on your Voyager through headphones using no other equipment (a bit silly really, you could get a small mixer) try patching an Out1 or Out2 through the delay and back through the External Input. This is a feedback loop itself though.

Not sure i understand fully the insert loop and what it's for in that case.

My idea wasn't a silly one if it had worked. 6 pounds for a lead instead of over 100 for a mixer and far less portable.

jrm1 wrote:Not sure i understand fully the insert loop and what it's for in that case.

Think of using a chorus for example. Makes more sense?

jrm1 wrote:My idea wasn't a silly one if it had worked.

My advice: get a $30 EHX headphones amp ore make one yourself

Different Foogers will have their own special place in a chain, and this will change depending on your needs. In general though, placing a delay in the Insert of your Voyager is not an appropriate location. The delay is best heard when it is placed after the Voyager in the larger scheme of things. Most of the other Foogers will work well in the Insert chain.

Stephen




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The insert loop is best used with effects that don't require the sound to be animated for the effect to be interesting. Delays and envelope followers aren't so great in the loop for example, because the oscillators are always on at the send plug of the loop. Distortion, phase, ring mods all sound great in the loop.

My standard setup is with a MF-102 in the loop and the delay at the output. The delay is most effective at the output and the 102 benefits from having simple oscillator signals at its input and the filter after it's output to tame the ultra highs the 102 can sometimes have.

Nice tip on Ring Modulator placement... I'll have to try that one.

Stephen




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