midi control of the filter cut off

prizmatic · Post by **prizmatic** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:06 am

Trying to automate the filter cutoff using midi and not having much luck just a lot of little noises. any ideas or suggestions ? we're using logic and ive tried it in dp as well with no luck , thanks Roger

monads · Post by **monads** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:08 pm

Goodluck!

But it's just too difficult to do with LSB and MSB. There's some threads on this topic here but you'll have to search.

BTW welcome to the forum!

prizmatic · Post by **prizmatic** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:20 pm

thanks for the welcome i was sure id joined a while ago but i guess not ! ive emailed moog and ill do some searching, if i come up with an easy fix ill post it. it seems like it wants to work but we already wasted 2 hours in the studio today. i wonder if it would be easier to use a midi to cv converter and control using cv ? bit of a round about way though

monads · Post by **monads** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:27 pm

It's no problem recording them. Don't filter out any CC's and record a filter sweep. You'll see what I mean. It's just almost impossible to draw them in by hand. If you find a solution let me know, cause I just gave up. Another option is to just record the sweeps manually (perhaps different sets of 'sweeps'). Save them and apply them to different songs/projects.

prizmatic · Post by **prizmatic** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:31 pm

we had no problem recording them fromt he midi out but when we played them back in it just didnt work , perhaps there is just too much info ? the reason why we were trying to automate it was we needed to do the same sweep on a pair of stereo tracks.

monads · Post by **monads** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:16 pm

Are you sure you're recording both #19 and #51 for filter cutoff? Cause I had a similar problem not doing sweeps properly.

Emil · Post by **Emil** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:08 pm

Probably make a hash of this again, but.....Leaving the filter CC or any CC number off or on is not going to allow playback, if the sequencer design does not account for the process of record and playback of a hardware synth via MIDI. Have sequencers changed from 'doing it all'?

I believe the configuration of sequencers for particular gear and trademark requirements have made it neccessary to define sequencers with a new language. That language is often vague and only relevent to the user of that one, particular seq. So, the seq are difficult to define in a universal language. Could be that it is incougrous to record MIDI because everything is set up to be more relevant if it is at sync?

This reminds me of reading a manual with significant intrigue, only to find a theoretical inference about the instruments capabilities. The Voyager does write or rather record to MIDI.

prizmatic · Post by **prizmatic** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:26 am

well we finally had some succes, martin gretschmann is in the other studio here and he recorded a fliter sweep into ableton live then played it back into the voayger and it worked fine, he tried it in logic and he had the same problem we had , he reopened logic and it worked ! some kind of logic problem it seems. i havent had a chance to try it myself but ill post when i get it to work properly . it may be a logic 7 issue, they add so much stuff with each new release that may be its sending some spurrious info. yes the lines of midi note event info included two instructions one #4 and one #19 as we were recording in what the voyager was putting out .

tunedLow · Post by **tunedLow** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:23 am

This works well in Cubase. In fact, there are some handy drawing tools for it - straight lines, curves etc, smoothed or stepped.

prizmatic · Post by **prizmatic** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:00 pm

i just got home and tried it in my studio and it works no problem with ableton live , so it must have been a software issue with logic . apparently though there is a big wiht pot mapping in 2.5 but is fixed in 2.6 .. thanks for your help everyone, roger

till · Post by **till** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:36 pm

And if one uses the new "T.S. Reduction" function of the just officially released OS 3.1 you can set the MIDI of the touch surface to send its data as a single midi CC per axis. This will reduce the 14 bit data to 7 bit ("only" 128 values per axis avialable). This might cause some steppy sound jump on certain sounds. But editing these parameters in a softsequencer will be easier and will work also with older software versions of Cubase, Logic or Performer.

To use this new function press PANEL and go to item 2.1 "T.S. Reduction". Press ENTER and selct if you would like the T.S. to send 7 or 14 bit data. Its that easy.

pmarafio · Post by **pmarafio** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:02 pm

Wow - what were they thinking when they programmed the Moog rack??? The midi standard for cutoff frequency is Midi parameter #74, resonance is #71.

Works on Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Nord, soft synths.....etc....etc.

So what does Moog Music do? They concoct some crazy combination of MSB and LSB values that are impossible to program into my Oxygen 8 controller. Jeez guys, what the heck went into that decision?

Hopefully, someone at moog Music will simplify the assignment of these all important controllers and make the Voyager Rack a useable live instrument. Until then, it's for studio use only.

If anyone can help I'll be forever grateful.

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:50 am

pmarafio wrote:Wow - what were they thinking when they programmed the Moog rack??? The midi standard for cutoff frequency is Midi parameter #74, resonance is #71 ... So what does Moog Music do? They concoct some crazy combination of MSB and LSB values that are impossible to program into my Oxygen 8 controller. Jeez guys, what the heck went into that decision?

This was a quite deliberate decision. Standard midi CCs have way too little resolution for analogue parameters. They are only 7 bit controllers: i.e. there are only 128 steps available to control the parameter in question. Using a CC without parameter smoothing (which Moog can't do because this is an analogue synth, not a digital one) would lead to pretty pronounced zipper noise (as on the rolands, yamahas, etc that you mention). Moog chose instead to use two midi controllers, one to represent the high bits and the other to represent the low bits. I haven't looked at the midi specs for a while but I presume this allows for 14 bits of resolution, i.e. 16384 steps. And it's actually still not enough: at high resonance the voyager definitely exhibits some zipper noise when turning the cutoff knob. So this was hardly a "crazy" decision.

pmarafio wrote:Hopefully, someone at moog Music will simplify the assignment of these all important controllers and make the Voyager Rack a useable live instrument. Until then, it's for studio use only.

er, why not just use the voyager rack's controls in a live situation? Why would you want to limit yourself to the oxygen 8's (frankly) low quality knobs when you could use all the RME's lovely pots?

pmarafio · Post by **pmarafio** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:06 pm

Thank you for a thoughtful response and the additional clarification. I never considered the analog vs. digital aspect of controllers. Now I understand.

kcabdeef · Post by **kcabdeef** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:27 pm

I'm not at home to try this out but don't you solve this by switching to 7-bit mode?

Do you still need the 2 controller info to make it work in 7-bit mode? Or is this 7 vs 14 bit thing just for the own voyager's knobs?

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midi control of the filter cut off

midi control of the filter cut off

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