Moog Music Forum

After several attempts to keep this poor thing in tune, I decided to reload the firmware, again...Did the INIT Globals, tried to calibrate it.

Sub was working fine as a USB midi controller for my soft synths, and still acting right in preset modes. OSC 2 is hopelessly out of tune even with the OSC 2 Beat set to Zero, it cannot be tuned now.

Got to the point where even after a reboot, hitting Activate Panel would just drone a really low frequency note regardless of any panel settings. OSC volumes could be all the way down. Didn't matter if I had Local ON or OFF, or if Ableton was even transmitting midi at all.

Rebooted one more time, and now I've got a blinking LFO RATE indicator and no sound, no midi, no response whatsoever.

Firmware was successfully loaded per the blinking indicators every time I went through it, just as it had before.

Is it time for #302 to go back to Asheville?

Help me Amos, you're my only hope!

...also...lots of gigs coming up. What's the turnaround on something like this?

-will

firmware not successfully loaded is the problem here.
The "only a blinking LFO LED" is your indicator that the Sub Phatty is in boot loader mode, waiting for firmware to be sent.
This is covered in the firmware update instructions, although I might need to make that part more clear.

Something about your MIDI setup when sending the firmware is not working.
Are you using a USB hub? if so, don't.
What software are you using to send the firmware sysex file?

be sure you load the latest firmware, currently v1.3.5: http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... _1_3_5.syx

here are the update instructions:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... E_v129.txt

when you're back up and running, reset the global settings on your Sub Phatty.
if there's still anything the matter with osc2 frequency, let me know.

I read the troubleshooting section and tried re-sending the firmware a couple of times before I posted...using C6 for uploading. I'll give it another shot though . Also, no hub and new cables.

Hey Amos!

Firmware transfer was successful after a couple more tries. Bizarre. Anyway, Osc 2 is back on track for the moment. Only thing I've noticed is since this update, is if I hit Octave +/- while holding a note with Local OFF, it kills the note. When I have local ON it behaves like it used to and just transposes the sustained note. I can certainly work around this for recording MIDI, but, in a software integrated love performance, it's kind of a bummer...any thoughts?

Thanks again for your time!

-will

Hi Will, I will check that out. pressing both the octave buttons at the same time is supposed to kill the note (it's a panic/all-notes-off function) but otherwise the intent is that the octave buttons should transpose held notes. If I need to fix the Local Off behavior, I'll do it early next week.

Cheers,

Amos

A few hours back working and Osc 2 is unusable again, glide stopped working and Amp EG stopped responding, should I load an earlier firmware version?

I can't find any midi issues in ableton, must be something I'm missing...

you could try an earlier firmware version; you could also try setting the knob mode to "snap" and see if this is related.

I'm really curious about the osc2 tuning you are describing; is oscillator 2 not tracking the same as oscillator 1? Or do they track in parallel and you just can't dial in unison? if you can't dial in unison, how far away in pitch is oscillator 2 and what is the tuning range available on the knob?

furthermore are these problems all/only happening in active panel mode, or do they affect presets when you tweak them also?

your initial active panel report sounded to me like it could have just been weird settings like amp EG gate source ON + amp EG repeat ON.
The fact that it ever took more than one try to update firmware tells me all is not perfect with your MIDI situation.

keep in mind that when you are in Active Panel mode it automatically saves any changes you make to the hidden parameters for that sound, so that they persist the next time you go into Active Panel mode... and remember you can reset all those parameters to default any time you like ("initialize preset" function, lower left of this cheat sheet: http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... v1_1_4.pdf)

if none of this info helps to sort it out, yes we could certainly do a quick turnaround here at the factory, in time for your upcoming gigs.
I sincerely would like for this instrument to work well for you.

Hi Amos,

I made a video to demonstrate the best I could some of the new problems I'm having with the Sub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... kw0h1I9uPI

I want to clarify the state of the firmware and settings.

This is after the newest firmware update, freshly reset with Initialize Globals.

I tried to capture AMP EG settings (especially the defunct release times) as I played through. Notice that the release works correctly after I switch back to a preset.

I was able to get ACTIVE PANEL's AMP EG to function normally (except release time) by changing the AMP EG GATE setting to "Keyboard Only", though, this was only after reverting to previous firmware versions.

While working on a tune last night, the Sub would continue to hold notes (unable to kill with Octave +/-) after stopping playback. Also, I tracked a filter sweet over about 32 bars. With playback (Ableton Live stopped, if I clicked anywhere in the recorded midi track, the Sub would sound at the recorded tone and where the filter cutoff was in the automation. Never had that happen before. (Local was off). Though there were several software instruments playing in the background via MIDI information I recorded with the Sub as a controller.

Also, this video was done with no USB/MIDI connection...all other MIDI devices unplugged from the computer, and LOCAL ON. I tested with similar results with USB and LOCAL OFF.

All of my presets are working perfectly, and I can get around these issues by using them.

Let me know if this helps! I can make more detailed videos if need be

Thanks!!!

-Will

Also, about Osc 2, it was tracking fine, I just couldn't dial a unison that was accurate between all octaves, I would typically have to tune about a 1/4 step one way or the other, higher octaves yielded a flat OSC 2, lower were sharp.

Even though it's been working a bit better (tuning between octaves) I still hear a "chorusing" even with the OSC 2 Frequency as close as I can get it to OSC 1, the effect is greater when the wave shape is in a more "variable" position, i.e. not close to a true Saw, Square, etc...

OSC 1 and SUB OSC are in perfect tune across every octave, all the time.

-w

it sounds like the amp eg gate source keeps being set to "on" -- all the behavior you describe is consistent with that. Why this keeps happening to the active panel sound only, I'm not sure. you can quickly reset this any time by using the "init preset" command. while panel is active, go into shift mode and press/light the Bank 3, Bank 1, and Patch 1 buttons, then press low C# twice to launch. This should reset all the hidden settings of the panel sound to default, which should set the EG gate sources to "keys or external" and give normal behavior. There is a MIDI CC for EG gate source, you could make sure that such a CC definitely isn't in your recorded project somewhere... I'll look at this more closely on Monday.

About oscillator 2: have you done a note calibration? If not I bet that would fix it.
refer again to the cheat sheet; off the top of my head I think that's Shift mode, then press/illuminate Bank 3, Bank 4, and Patch 4 buttons... then press low C# twice to launch. Takes maybe 10 minutes, doesn't sound like much at first... the LFO LED blinks faster as each note gets tuned closer to its target.
Make sure to do this after the unit has been on and warmed up for a good 30 minutes or so, and make sure the temperature in the room doesn't fluctuate wildly during the calibration. Those are things that will affect how well osc2 tracks the keyboard; you want constant temperature conditions for every note as it's being tuned.

INIT Preset stopped the droning, and AMP EG Release is back on board!

I'll re-upgrade to the latest firmware and play with USB MIDI again, see if I can replicate the CC that caused the problem in the first place.

Thanks again for your amazing product support!

-Will

Also, I have run the note calibration in a temperature controlled setting twice, after the oscillators had ages to warm up, and that didn't fix my issue, but, it seems ok for the moment, may have been a fluke. I will try and replicate that as well