Moog Music Forum

Hi,

I've had my Little Phatty Stage 2 for a couple of years now and haven't really gotten on with it - i've never fallen in love with it and rarely reach for it. It's great for huge, clean, modern analog sounds and i do make certain styles of music where it's cool to use - but i'm currently working on an '80s album, and i find the LPII basically useless:

- Not enough top end/high frequency (the classic 'modern moogs don't distort the VCA' thing) - changing to 1/2/3 pole doesn't sound 'right' either
- Generally i find there's TOO much sub bass
- I don't really like the distortion on it at all, so i never use it
- No noise gen
- It just really doesn't sound very 'vintage' for 'classic' basslines

It's huge sounding and i can appreciate that it's a quality instrument, but not for me. I basically want a Minimoog but can't afford one!

80s funk/boogie baselines and leads (think Midnight Star 'Operator' bass!) are my priority, and also 80s 'new wave' kind of sounds (although they didn't use moogs that much).

FWIW my synths are: Moog Little Phatty II, DX7, D50, Yamaha Motif, Roland Juno 60, Roland SH-2000 (temporary) - so this would be my 'main mono'. I don't use plugin synths much - Arturia Minimoog V just sounds plastic/fake to me - i can get close with it, but there's just a very artificial sound to it and the filter/res just sounds plain 'bad'. And i prefer hardware for the tactile control too.

So, i'm thinking of selling the LPII and getting the Sub-phatty. There's nowhere to demo one close by however, and none of the demos i've seen have any funk/boogie sounds.

Do you guys think the Sub-phatty is more suited to the 'vintage' stuff i'm doing? Anyone using it for those 'squelchy envelope' funk sounds? Is it as close to a Minimoog as you'll get from a modern Moog?

Cheers

Ed

My hesitation: the potential of the release of a 'Little Phatty Stage III' or Voyager using the tech from the Sub-phatty... sometime soon perhaps. I can't afford a Voyager (perhaps an RME), but i just feel like this tech Moog tech has to be transferred to the Little Phatty/Voyager eventually.

I'm not thrilled with the 2 octaves on the Sub-Phatty, and the synth itself awkward size for my setup, but I can probably live with it/use another keyboard anyway if the sound is good enough.

Will the Sub-Phatty give me the 'vintage' tone i'm after?

Cheers!

I have no experience with the SubPhatty, but I don't see it having any tone that will be miles away from their previous products. (Hate to suggest this on the Moog board) but perhaps the Korg MS-20 might give you more of what you're after? I know what you mean by the massive sub-bass. Have you experimented with EQ and perhaps a chorus effect on the Phatty? Good luck.

Hi,

Thanks for replying - but an MS20 is not suited for boogie/funk at all.

Cheers

From my experience with the Sub, you can get all kinds of sounds. Post a sample of something and I'll try to recreate it with the Sub. That should give you an idea.

That said, to my ear, the 80's sound is not tied to specific gears (except maybe the DX7 because nobody programmed it), but more on the simplicity of the patch. What I mean by this is that you don't need all the feature of a Virus to get that sound, because most synths at that time were simple. When you start to think like this, you can get all the 80's you want.

Now, you can also use Arturia's VSTs. Last time I used them they sounded pretty convincing. I've heard many songs with an 80's vibe that were all done with software.

Hi,

While you say that the 80s isn't tied to any gear... i'd have to disagree. The Minimoog and Prophet 5, as well as Oberheim brass... DX7.... they are the 80s staples! Especially for this type of music: Mini for bass/leads - Prophet 5 for pads/stabs/strings/brass.

When i play my Juno 60, while it's limited, there's no 'coaxing' required - it sounds like the 80s to me. It just 'sounds right'. As does the Minimoog/DX7, whatever. Same as plugging a Les Paul into a JCM800 Marshall stack for rock music. It has 'the sound' which defines certain genres. At the end of the day, the Little Phatty can't do 'vintage' as well as i'd like (and i'm certain it's not my ability to program it - i can coax them out of Mini easily on the rare occasion i've been able to try one). I'm trying to get closer to the sound of the Mini. Yes, i regularly use Chorus/FX too!

Here's a whole bunch of (moog bassline) examples, if you have any time to recreate any with the Sub Phatty - i'd really appreciate that :

- Midnight Star Operator: http://youtu.be/jdjIqhgiNnQ
- Howard Johnson - So Fine: http://youtu.be/mpgjuhJiUbs
- Change - It Burns Me Up http://youtu.be/24ayXv5Vk-U
- Network - Cover Girl: http://youtu.be/HVyaDgyOPbw
- The Limit - Crimes Of Passion: http://youtu.be/NxG3hrTU8L8
- D Train - You're The One For Me: http://youtu.be/QWmteg9guoo
- SOS Band - Just Be Good to Me: http://youtu.be/khj9jyNvhpQ
- Phil Collins - Sussudio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qBaBb1Y-U

OK i'll stop now

I've tried the Arturia Minimoog V - i've had it for years and know it well - but after using the LPII, i can hear the 'fakeness' in the Arturia, especially with 'high resonance/emphasis' sounds. I might try the Prophet V plugin for that sound, but i really dislike plugins.

I know Diva and Monark are supposed to be good too, but i'm more interested in putting money towards good hardware.

Cheer

Eddie

Hi Beatsmith!

You seem to be very picky -no offense- and You are basically putting in the people here the choice of yours that lies on your accurate ears
My first piece of advice would be the obvious one: go try a Sub Phatty.
At least as obvious as the fact you are here precisely because you cannot do so.

So my second piece of advice is: why don't you choose a vintage Moog? The MiniMoog is out of range, ok, but what about a Rogue, Prodigy, MicroMoog...? I'm quite unexperimented in terms of how vintage Moog sound but I know many Mooguys here who can describe it.

Hi,

I don't think i'm picky at all. I just don't get on with the LPII and am asking if the Sub-Phatty is more suited to what i want to do. I'm trying to pick the right instrument for the job.

I'd consider a vintage Moog no problem, but there are obvious advantages to a modern synth if it can sound the same - midi if nothing else.

Perhaps someone who has used a Sub-Phatty/Mini/LP2 and makes boogie or is familiar with the style can comment?

Thanks!

I have a comment: That Midnight Star track is fresh.

Amos... i was hoping you'd chime in... although i was looking for a different response!!

YES! Nice! dig that squelchy bass... why does everybody trash on VOCODERs until they hear one again?
dig the telephone tones - and those fabulous 80's 'horn' shots, too

Amos wrote:I have a comment: That Midnight Star track is fresh.

to original poster ~no mistake! the SUB PHATTY is absolutely wonderful but then so is my SLIM (so imagine same same for your 'Little') ~ there is an actual named "80's" patch for the Slim/Little Phatty and depending what else you have, it's built-in arpegiattor may even give you a bit of an advantage for 80's sounds ...but the answer is -- people can do all kinds of AMAZING things with musical instruments - and like any genre it's more about the playing than the gear

Eddie wrote:Here's a whole bunch of (moog bassline) examples

Ok I can see a trend here! I'll give it a shot.

Thanks!

I'm looking for opinions on if it's superior for vintage/more 70s 80s tone than the LP2, too!

Ed

Alright here what I got :

(watch out it's loud!)
http://audiour.com/playlist/hplso3vp

It's a 8 bar loop on repeat. I've changed some parameters (filter cutoff, filter resonance, filter eg decay, filter eg amount, even the oscillators' waveform at some point) while it played.

I've noticed (and the more I play with the Sub, the more I notice this) that you can get wily different sounds from very slight changes.

I'm surprised that you say you can't get this type of sound from the Little Phatty. I was under the impression that its filter was more "buttery" than the Sub, similar to a MiniMoog.

Here's the patch for Sub's owner : http://sharesend.com/jh3qkjr8

Thanks, sounds great. I think there's just some 'noise' missing, but there's a cool range of sounds there. I like the stuff with the filter envelope attack not quite as fast as possible, high resonance - or the ability to sound quite percussive with the resonance down - instead of just subby.

Generally the little phatty does not sound minimoog like at ALL (hey, nobody said it was trying to). From the sound example you generously made, i'd say the sub-phatty has a lot more buzzy top end (which i like) and does a better minimoog/vintage moog impression. I'd love to have a go on one myself. Perhaps on my next trip to London to see family.

Of course, i can coax 'similar-ish' sounds from a LP, but it's not quite nailed. It just sounds modern! I can tell the difference. Check out the minimoog vs voyager comparison on youtube... you've probably already seen it. It's just not the same.

Thanks again - i'm also still interested in the opinions of folk who are making similar kinds of music - boogie/funk or any 80s kind of stuff. Especially if you've tried them both!

Ed