Build and Sell a modern version of the Moog "Constellation"

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Considering Moog already produces two of the three parts necessary for a modern version of this, I don't think it would be a terrible idea if the company were to produce a polysynth and package it with the moog LP, sub phatty, or Voyager synth, the Minitaur w/ bass pedals or the Taurus 3 with bass pedals, and sell it all as one slick space age setup. I really think it would be a hit with moog fans out there, and the polysynth would also be able to compete with the other analog polysynths out there. I think a moog polysynth, so long as it had the moog filter in it would be hugely popular these days. I also trust Moog to do a better job of the design than DSI did with the Prophet '08. I guess let me know what you think, and who knows, if there's enough interest in it, maybe Moog will make it. If they are reluctant to make a polysynth, perhaps they could team up with DSI and sell a "Constellation" package that would include either a sub phatty or voyager, along with bass pedals, and either a taurus or minitaur. Also, if moog were to make a VCO polysynth, I think that would do very well. VCO polysynths that were decent go for a fortune on ebay, and I imagine that a new, easily serviced, VCO polysynth would sell. Anyway, just my two cents. If anybody's interested I made a track as a tribute to the original "Constellation" that was never released, it's at https://soundcloud.com/aphter-glo/aband ... stellation .

[EricK]

I advocated for this years ago, and I own the Voyager and the Taurus III.
The thing is, not a lot of people can agree on what the polysynth should be. Some want it in a rackmount format with voice cards you can add as you can afford. I personally would want a polymoog style chassis that is suitable for the Voyager to sit upon (hopefully wood though) but a lot of people claim they don't have room for or want a monster synth like that. Some want it to have many voices, many knobs, and expect outstanding sound in the smallest possible footprint and at a very affordable price point and I don't even know if this is feasible.
DSI has very small and affordable synths, and Tom Oberheim is working on his monster SO4V. If you want a Moog polysynth, you probably should be prepared to shell out thousands, if not approaching 10k. Then enter the endless threads about how it doesn't sound as good as the Memorymoog.

This is something that I have been considering for a very long time, but as I look at my Moog gear (Voyager, T3, MicroMoog, 5 Foogers, and a Theremin) I really don't think that I need anymore Moog filters. It seems to me personally that DSI or Oberheim or the A6 would be a welcome addition of something different, which is what people have been saying all these years. Then Moog doesn't seem to be moving in the Polysynth direction. I don't think that my keyboard skills can even justify one anyway. I know my wallet can't.

Why not just go out and buy a MemoryMoog or a Polymoog and a Mini and Taurus?

I'm not trying to shoot down the notion though, I think Moog would do the market justice if they ever got into it. Bob knows lots of people have been wanting one.

Nice track, and welcome to the forum.

Eric

[MC]

As much as I'd love to see a polyphonic from Moog, I also have to admit that I have plenty of moog filters in my system. I just resurrected my OB-X to the point it is making music and have come to appreciate the unique color of the Oberheim SEM filter that the Moog filter can't do, and vice versa. Both filters are essential in a polyphonic.

Probably the two most expensive components for a large format polysynth with 61-note keyboard is the case and keybed which would add $$$ to the price. In today's MIDI world I would prefer an analog polyphonic in compact rack format.

I don't want the Constellation format of polyphonic base system with companion monophonic and bass pedals. Right now I have a need for a rack analog polyphonic with Moog and Oberheim filters and at minimum the voice modulation architecture of the Memorymoog (the RME is not enough and I don't want to pay for (n-1) redundant control panels to build a (n) voice polyphonic). Fitting the knobs/buttons for a polyphonic to a rack format would be a challenge, however I can live with manipulating the basic controls remotely from the Voyager control panel - that was a great idea with the Taurus III. It doesn't need the extensive modulation features of the Andromeda, but make the MIDI implementation well featured. I could really use such a device for gigging as I want to cut back the keyboards I am hauling to gigs and increase the visibility to crowds (few people can see you behind a wall of keyboards and the stages are getting smaller at clubs). As for current products, the SE Omega is buggy and it doesn't have much in the modulation department. As for used products, the OBMx was so promising yet so disappointing. VAs and softsynths do not meet my expectations. The Voyetra-8 is closest to my needs but I am not comfortable with only one service source in NYC who will not make the service documents available.

[Kenneth]

As awesome as it would be to see a new Moog Poly, I must agree with Eric and MC. It would either be far too expensive for most people, or not sound good enough to most people. I don't think there's much middle ground between those two. Moog could either: go all out and design the poly that everyone has been asking for, which is essentially a modern Memorymoog, and sell it for $8k; or they could cut corners and design a competitor to the DSI stuff, and have people complain and say "it doesn't sound like the Memorymoog" etc. For what it's worth, I think they're doing great just making monosynths.

Also: There is only one Moog synthesizer which is similar in functionality to the Lyra: the Voyager XL. It is $5000. A Constellation system would cost almost $16,000 . I don't think there are a lot of people who would be able, let alone willing, to pay for something like that. Definitely not me.

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Yeah, I definitely agree on both the cost and the issue of what a moog poly would sound/look like. I do know people are willing to shell out lots of money for a good analog polysynth, and a new one would mean that there would be less worry about repairs, etc. Like I said, maybe they could team up with DSI and release a package with a prophet with legs and a place to set your voyager, minimoog, etc. I also realize there will be a whole lot of complaints about the synth no matter how they do it. If it's affordable it will be cheap, if it's expensive it will be unaffordable. I would have to think it would be far cheaper than chaining four or five phatties or voyagers together, as is their current polyphonic offering. I also remember when the Prophet '08 came out and there were all kinds of complaints about how it didn't sound like the Prophet 5. I personally prefer to look at synths for how they sound, not how they are supposed to sound according to my expectations or the name. I love my Little Phatty, I don't think it substitutes for a minimoog, but I like it none the less. I like my Mopho, I don't think it sounds like a Pro One, but I like it anyway. I like my old roland polysynths, I don't think any of them come close to a Jupiter 8, but I like them. I even like my old Poly-61m (although programming it is a bigger bitch than my ex-wife) - a quick note, I don't have an ex wife. I guess I see a big market for VCO polysynths, and do think if moog were to do it up right, and provide 2 osc per voice, 4-8 voices, one or two filters, two envelopes, and a bit more modulation than is available on the little phatty (although if it made it 500 or 1000 cheaper, I'd be happy with the modulation settings of the phatty), and kept it's new price within a $1000 of a second hand Jupiter 8, that they'd have a winner. Really, people seem to be able to afford to shell out several thousand dollars for a vintage polysynth that would be ungodly expensive to repair, I'd think they'd be just as willing to do so for a moog. Perhaps offering a multi-mode filter would be nice, or atleast a high pass too. Maybe they could have two different styles of filter. I don't know I'm just brainstorming here. People pay $1000 for a phatty, people pay like $3000 for a voyager, I'm not sure what a Taurus 3 costs, but people are willing to pay that, and people are willing to pay $1500 for a Prophet '08, not sure what the '12 costs though. Look at Roland's Jupiter 80, it's not even analog, it's synth engine can be found in cheaper synths, and it's like ungodly expensive, yet people still pay it. Maybe Moog shouldn't reinvent the wheel here, but perhaps creating a stand that would hold something like the Prophet '08 and leave enough room up top for a voyager, and enough room below for the Taurus, would be something that would be worthwile looking into.

[kslight]

EH? What's wrong with the Prophet 08? I've owned a great deal of synths and the Prophet 08 I played seemed pretty good to me...more than passable if I was in the market, especially for the price.

I don't think a lot of people take into consideration what a Moog poly synth would really cost to the consumer. To assume it would be cheaper than a Voyager is silly. At best it would be a compromise to the diehards that do have the cash outlay (not good enough) and to those that think it should be priced like DSI's stuff (pretty reasonable for the most part...a Moog poly would most certainly be more expensive). For the truly adventurous I suppose you could just chain together a bunch of modern rack Moogs to put their money where their mouth is.

[ZYKLIFF]

Yeah when I think of maximum Moog Polyphony... I think of seven Slim Phatty's and a Little Phatty to control it all. Does that not sound good enough?

[Kenneth]

EH? What's wrong with the Prophet 08? I've owned a great deal of synths and the Prophet 08 I played seemed pretty good to me...more than passable if I was in the market, especially for the price.

I don't think a lot of people take into consideration what a Moog poly synth would really cost to the consumer. To assume it would be cheaper than a Voyager is silly. At best it would be a compromise to the diehards that do have the cash outlay (not good enough) and to those that think it should be priced like DSI's stuff (pretty reasonable for the most part...a Moog poly would most certainly be more expensive). For the truly adventurous I suppose you could just chain together a bunch of modern rack Moogs to put their money where their mouth is.

I did not say there was something wrong with the Prophet 08. I said if Moog built a synth that was similar to it, people would complain that it is cheap: DCOs, software controlling modulation and envelopes, loads of hidden parameters/menu-diving, etc. People wouldn't expect that from Moog, and it would upset them.

Yeah when I think of maximum Moog Polyphony... I think of seven Slim Phatty's and a Little Phatty to control it all. Does that not sound good enough?

I have been thinking of doing that for a while now. I think those set-ups are awesome, and sound great. But, I don't need it.

[kslight]

I did not say there was something wrong with the Prophet 08.

I was referring to the OP's statement:

I also trust Moog to do a better job of the design than DSI did with the Prophet '08.

[Voltor07]

I have not tried the PE P'08, but the original one with the encoders was horrible. And while I can appreciate the Prophet '08 as a synthesizer, I would hope that a Moog polyphonic doesn't have the same sound as the DSI...really, I don't like the Curtis filter's sound. Also, it should be noted that the Memorymoog was criticized for not having Moog oscillators, and therefore it did not sound like a Moog according to a lot of people.

[thealien666]

Things I dislike about the Prophet08 are:

Aggressive red backlight on display, too small display, too many menus and pages (due to too small display), somewhat sluggish software envelopes, lack of resolution on some parameters, artificially boosted (or equalized) sound (especially in bass), even then most of the time you have to use layer mode in order to get lush sounds which reduces polyphony by half, flaky encoders (though a potentiometer replacement kit is available as well as a PE edition), somewhat unnatural mod wheels location (I disliked them on the Moog Rogue for the same reason).

Things I like:
The keyboard feel and very expressive aftertouch, the very versatile arpeggiator/sequencer. But that's about it.


There's just something about the P08 that some people don't seem to like. It may be in the list above, or something else, I don't know. I adore the P5, but never really clicked with the P08. Despite its analog oscillators and filters, I didn't find it particularly satisfying playing, and programming it. It's a strange sensation hard to describe...

[misterpete]

agree, they just sound really bad to me..i didn't realize it was due to the filter
same for the waldorf blofelds do they use the same one?...

if you like that glassy digital sound you might as well just get into the iOS apps

I would hope that a Moog polyphonic doesn't have the same sound as the DSI...really, I don't like the Curtis filter's sound.

[MC]

My two biggest beefs with the P'08 is wimpy 12dB filter with no resonance and polymod depth is too coarse. I have some subtle tricks to choir and brass sounds that depend on those two and the P'08 could not deliver. It is a good polyphonic otherwise but DSI needs better sounding filters.

[Kenneth]

I have not tried the PE P'08, but the original one with the encoders was horrible. And while I can appreciate the Prophet '08 as a synthesizer, I would hope that a Moog polyphonic doesn't have the same sound as the DSI...really, I don't like the Curtis filter's sound. Also, it should be noted that the Memorymoog was criticized for not having Moog oscillators, and therefore it did not sound like a Moog according to a lot of people.

Right you are, sir. My mistake. I suppose the Memorymoog is more similar to the SCI stuff then, since it uses Curtis chips for... everything.

I hope I do not offend anyone by having a moment of honesty, but I have personally never liked a single piece of DSI gear that I have laid hands on. Build quality is cheap, everything I hear sounds BADLY EQ'd, even if it's just a dry signal, filters sound thin, and all those hidden parameters/menus make me feel like I'm trying to navigate my way around my old MicroKORG again. Each time I have spent time with a DSI synthesizer has been an overall negative experience. I can't see myself ever owning one.

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Yeah, I completely agree about a moog polysynth not having curtis filters. I just was saying they could package it together if they were that opposed to building their own polysynth.