Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesizers)

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Singer/Songwriter 1
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Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesizers)

Post by Singer/Songwriter 1 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:06 pm

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and became fascinated with analog synthesizers, but I really don't know anything about them. I would like to learn the basics and some of them are in the manuals that I have found on the Moog website, but being a singer/songwriter,I seem to understand guitars only, so I have questions like:

- What is the CP-251 for ? Can't I just use a Moogerfooger when using a Voyager without using a CP -251? I did gather that a CP-251 does something, but I don't understand what.

- Why so many patch chords when there's only one synth and one pedal ( yes.... I really don't get it ;) )

- Why use attenuators?

Now I really don't expect someone to explain every detail about synthesizers to me, but where can I find information about it? The more I read about it in product descriptions, the more new questions arrise without an answer to my initial questions.
I hope that someone has some advice because I really would like to step into the world of analog synthesis :)

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:25 am

The CP-251 is a Control Processor. In analogue synths world, you have audio signal of course, but you also have control signals. The CP provided some of them, and can process them.

For cool tutorials, you can visit the Gordon Reid's SOS pages (Sound on Sound). You may want to start with the basics about sound and substractive synthesis.

EricK
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by EricK » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:43 am

We're talking about analog synthesizers, so there are a combination of building blocks that the signal goes through to make a sound.
Oscillators generate waveshapes, Filters subtract the harmonic content of the waves, Envelope Generators shape signals over a time period (the attack decay sustain and release of a note), and Amplifiers allow you to start and stop the notes and send them to speakers. These 4 building blocks make a very basic analog synthesizer, and generally, you need all four of them to make the most basic sounds. We often refer to these individual building blocks as modules.


In a synthesizer you are generally dealing with two types of signals. The main signal that we want is the audio signal. We want the audio signal to obey our commands, so we need a control signal to get these modules to shape the sounds we want.


Since we are dealing with analog circuitry, when you turn a knob, you are actually controlling the amount of electricity in the circuit (a potentiometer being a variable resistor). So we then refer to the building blocks as a Voltage Controlled Oscillator (VCO), Voltage Controlled Filter (VCF), and Voltage Controlled Amplifier (VCA). The envelope generator doesn't change it's name.

The easiest method for controlling a VCO is with a Control Voltage, usually provided by a keyboard. So there is a particular voltage that corresponds with a particular pitch. So if you want A440, there is a voltage value that will equal that. The keyboard generates precise increments of this voltage to give you precise pitches.

Any good synthesizer has a modulation source. This is a part of the synthesizer that has additional voltage sources that (beyond simple audio generation) lets you affect the modules in more expressive ways. This will let you create more expressive sounds which will get into instrument replication and sound effects territory.



In a synthesizer, there are three different types of modules. Signal generators, signal modifiers, and signal routers.




On to your questions:

The CP251 is a unit that consists of several modules that generate, modify and route voltages to and from various voltage sources and destinations. You don't NEED it if you have your synth and moogerfoogers and want to keep everything in the audio chain, but if you want additional modulation sources beyond what the synth and Foogers were designed to do, then this is a very handy device.

You need a lot of patch cords to route audio and voltages to and fro. This will allow you to generate new sounds and free your hands from turning several knobs. This is why we often refer to a series of patches as a program. We have programmed the synth to perform a series of functions.

Attenuators lessen the amount of voltage being sent to a destination. If your voltage is ranging from A to Z, you can attenuate the signal to make it range from anywhere in between (A to K, A to G) or attenuate it fully (A to A....no variation).






Now, of corse I left out a lot of important details, but synthesizers have a high learning curve. Once you get over this learning curve, a new world of sound generation opens up and you can make patches like this:

Image
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EricK
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by EricK » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:49 am

Image
Image
Image
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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:13 am

EricK, you'll frighten him ;)

BTW welcome to the forums, Singer/Songwriter1 :)

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by Singer/Songwriter 1 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:25 am

Hello Eric and Stiiiiiiive,

Thank you very much for the links and explaination of the basics. I'm reading the SOS Synt Secrets guide now and combi with the explaination I start to understand the basics a little bit. By the way you haven't frightend me enoug yet to give up :) I think that i should start out with buying a synth and reading about synthesizing. My choice for an analog synth is based on the sound compared to digital sound. I had some experience with guitar effects in that area. Also I can't handle menu's and computers in general very well. I guess that physically turning knobs and plugging + unplugging chords is way nicer and more logical.

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by tommyecho » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:03 am

EricK, that was brilliant.

:idea: Singer/songwriter, while you are reading about subtractive synths, try out the moog doodle:

http://www.google.com/doodles/robert-mo ... h-birthday

You can get a basic feel for VCOs, VCFs, and VCAs there.

Dude, I was basically in your shoes a year ago, it's a steep learning curve, but sooooooo worth it!

Welcome!

Tom
THE GOLDEN MINIMOOG VOYAGER #31

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drcarver
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by drcarver » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:08 am

The Sonic Infinity Voyager DVD is also a great starting place for understanding the basics.
New album available!

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/chriscarver

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by thealien666 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:22 am

Welcome to the forum Singer/Songwriter 1.

Even if EricK has done a good job, let me put it in "electric guitar" words lol.

Think of the oscillators in a synth as guitar strings. Their different waveforms as different pick-ups on an electric guitar. The rest of a synth as the "pedal board" or effects. The filter section and its envelope as a wah pedal. The envelopes as automated volume pedals. The LFO as a way to control the modulation speed of the "effects".
Patch cords as a very versatile way of combining many "effects pedals" together, either in daisy chain or in parallel. And finally the keyboard keys as your hand with a guitar pick (but you probably had figured that one out right? :lol: )

There are many informative and interesting articles about subtractive synthesis that can be found online. Just a quick Google search will surely find some...

Anyway, don't be "scared" by Eric's photos because, as on a guitar effects pedal board, you can never have enough new ones...
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
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Singer/Songwriter 1
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by Singer/Songwriter 1 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 am

thealien666 wrote:Welcome to the forum Singer/Songwriter 1.

Even if EricK has done a good job, let me put it in "electric guitar" words lol.

Think of the oscillators in a synth as guitar strings. Their different waveforms as different pick-ups on an electric guitar. The rest of a synth as the "pedal board" or effects. The filter section and its envelope as a wah pedal. The envelopes as automated volume pedals. The LFO as a way to control the modulation speed of the "effects".
Patch cords as a very versatile way of combining many "effects pedals" together, either in daisy chain or in parallel. And finally the keyboard keys as your hand with a guitar pick (but you probably had figured that one out right? :lol: )

There are many informative and interesting articles about subtractive synthesis that can be found online. Just a quick Google search will surely find some...

Anyway, don't be "scared" by Eric's photos because, as on a guitar effects pedal board, you can never have enough new ones...

Indeed, I figured that out now, but it's really great that everyone is helping me of finding a way to learn about these things! By the way, is it easier to start with an old school voyager instead of a performer edition? I haaate menu's haha. Also I don't really care for sounds that are put in by the factory, because I rather start finding some sounds myself.

Brian G
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by Brian G » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:30 pm

Welcome to the club.

There is a lot of good information that has been posted so far.

Just to add,

It’s not as bad as it looks . Take it a step at a time, play with all the knobs and see what they do. Start with just one oscillator turned on then build from there. As said there are many articles on line to get the basics, but the best way is to just try things out, you aren’t going to hurt anything. Work with what is in the menus later, forget for while that it is even there.

With the CP251, you do not have to have it to use the voyager or MoogerFoogers, when ready it will give you expanded control over selected functions. You only need a bunch of patch cords if you need to go to multiple destinations. Do you have to do that all the time, no. Is it a creative tool to use other times, yes. Cool thing is like with guitar, you can start with on external “effects” box and expand from their when you are ready or just feel the need to have a bunch of cool stuff and wires all over the place.

Enjoy

.

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by Singer/Songwriter 1 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:04 pm

Brian G wrote:Welcome to the club.

It’s not as bad as it looks . Take it a step at a time, play with all the knobs and see what they do. Start with just one oscillator turned on then build from there. As said there are many articles on line to get the basics, but the best way is to just try things out, you aren’t going to hurt anything. Work with what is in the menus later, forget for while that it is even there.

.
Thank you for your input. Indeed I think that I should stay away from the menu's in order to find my own way of creating sounds and to find what does what. I hope that my messages will be posted soon, because somehow the moderators aren't really quick with it ;)

By the way, is the Voyager Performance Edition way nicer compared to the Voyager Old School? I understand that the differences are the presets and ability to save your own presets, but also the "touchpad" kind of thing. Is that touchpad worth the extra cost compared to the Old School?

Thanks for the help again

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by EricK » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:30 pm

tommyecho wrote:I was basically in your shoes a year ago, it's a steep learning curve, but sooooooo worth it!
Now look at the gear list in your signature!


Sonic infinity starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfe9bHhSMNk
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://moogfoundation.org/do-something-2/donate/

I think I hear the mothership coming.

EricK
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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by EricK » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:14 am

Regarding the menu's of the Voyager, they aren't at al as convoluted as you might think. Some of the things that you can do with the digital brain of the Voyager is to select filter poles, change the keyboard re-triggering methods, pot mapping, programmable modulation destinations...it really makes for a very nicely featured instrument that is not very menu driven as you might be experiencing on other manufacturers products.

The ability to save presets is very nice. You will create your own programs that you may wish to recall later, especially if you wish to perform live.

The Performer also is a very sophisticated midi controller, every pot and switch has a midi cc. So you can do all sorts of advanced midi things like recording a solo live and tweaking the knobs in real time and then recreating that later with a midi sequencer.

The Old Schools have been discontinued so they might be a little harder to find or you might be paying more for a store that still has some new than you would if you had purchased one a few years ago. Novamusik is a great place to deal with because they give rock bottom prices on their gear.

Quality of construction is going to be the same, which you will see is top notch. Whichever model you go with, you will not be disappointed.
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
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I think I hear the mothership coming.

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Re: Where to start ? (I don't know anything about synthesize

Post by tommyecho » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:30 pm

EricK wrote:
tommyecho wrote:I was basically in your shoes a year ago, it's a steep learning curve, but sooooooo worth it!
Now look at the gear list in your signature!


Sonic infinity starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfe9bHhSMNk
I know! Singer/songwriter should be warned: once you start, watch out for your bank account! In my case, I sold a couple of classical guitars and gave most of the money to moog :D

on the subject of presets, I'd like to add that, in a recent interview with the great japanese synthesist Tomita, he was expressing his appreciation of the new voyagers with their ability to save patches. It can definitely be nice if you want to switch sounds quickly in a performance, even if all of the sounds are ones that you created yourself (which is the way to go, of course :wink: )
THE GOLDEN MINIMOOG VOYAGER #31

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