Moog Music Forum

Does anyone know if it feels more like the eternal warmup cycle for the Slim Phatty, or the relatively quick process as seen on the Voyager or LP? I spoke with tech support earlier and they said "15 minutes minimum, but 30-60 minutes are recommended."

Minitaur users: how do you feel about the warmup time?

I ask because I am looking for a dedicated bass synth but never liked the warmup issues I encountered with the Slim Phatty. I am between the Minitaur and the DSI Mopho (no warmup issues due to DCOs).

Suggestions? Ideas? Experience with the minitaur?

Thanks!

Spitfire wrote:Does anyone know if it feels more like the eternal warmup cycle for the Slim Phatty, or the relatively quick process as seen on the Voyager or LP? I spoke with tech support earlier and they said "15 minutes minimum, but 30-60 minutes are recommended."

Minitaur users: how do you feel about the warmup time?

I ask because I am looking for a dedicated bass synth but never liked the warmup issues I encountered with the Slim Phatty. I am between the Minitaur and the DSI Mopho (no warmup issues due to DCOs).

Suggestions? Ideas? Experience with the minitaur?

Thanks!

Earlier today I tested this. As soon as I turned it on (after being off all night), I played it against my Mopho Keyboard (which has DCO's and is in tune the second it's switched on) and it was dead on. Of course, this is in a controlled environment in my studio. If you are taking it out on the road, it would probalby need a bit longer to tune.

Voyager and LP have v/oct oscillators.

Taurus 3 and Minitaur have v/hz oscillators.

V/oct oscillators need a warm up because of a device called the linear to exponential converter. This converter is based around a transistor doing the exponential conversion, which unfortunately has a temperature factor in the transfer function that impacts the tuning accuracy. During the "warm up" period the transistor is gradually acclimatized from room temperature to operating temperature - the environment of surrounding components is warmer than room temperature - and after 20 minutes has reached stability.

V/hz have no need for the exponential converter and thus have no warm up time. When I turn on either of my Taurus pedals they are in tune and ready to play. So the Minitaur should not need a warm up time.

So why aren't all analog synths using v/hz oscillators? They do not scale equally when using any modulation - pitch wheel or LFO or other modulation.

Thank you both for your replies.

@ Muksys: so, in your opinion, which of the two (minitaur or mopho) do you prefer for bass? Do you think the Mopho does a good enough job to make you think "if I didn't have a minitaur, the mopho would do just fine for bass"? And thanks for sharing the results of your test.

@ MC: the world of electronics is fascinating, thanks for the detailed response. Now, if the minitaur needs no warm up time because of the explanation you provided on v/oct and v/hz, then why would Moog tech support tell me "15 minutes minimum... 30-60 is best?" I hope you see where the confusion arises. Interestingly enough, the LP and Voyager seem to need little to no warmup time in my A/C cooled studio. But when I had a Slim Phatty... oh man, it would take forever.

Your answers are of particular note to me, since I am using a series of very stable set of Moogs and Oberheims in my setup that permit me to get started almost immediately. The SP was sold because it dragged its heels... and if the Mopho could sound just as well and be stable, then that would be great. But I prefer the minitaur because of its sound... man does it sound good. And if like Muksys' test shows the minitaur can warmup (or as MC states, it doesn't need a warmup, or as Moog support says it will need between 15 minutes to an hour) very quickly, then I'd prefer that option.

Thanks for the help.

To Spitfire,

From your replies, you seem much more concerned, if not somewhat fixated, on warm-up times. Sometimes, in order to get a fantastic sound, it's worth a little wait.
I've got a 1975 Minimoog D that takes about 10 seconds to warm-up and then stays pretty much stable. I also have a 1982 Korg Mono/Poly which takes at least 2 full minutes before being even playable ! But it can do things the Minimoog can only dream of, and the Korg can only dream of sounding like a Mini.

And if all that is required is to tweak the master tune knob on an analog synth from time to time in order to get back on track as far as tuning goes, it's not worst than having to retune a guitar string, or two, after having played a screaming lead on it.

As for which is best suited for bass duty between a Mopho and a Minitaur, the question is up to you to decide by comparing both. Not rely solely on what others are saying about it. After all, you are going to have to live with your choice, so why not choose the one you feel sounds the best to your ears ?

@ spitfire: I guess if I only had a mopho, I'd use it for bass, but since I have a Little Phatty, I would go to that for bass without hesitation. You can get good bass out of the Mopho, but nowhere near the depth of the LP. Of course, I have a Minitaur and I go to that over everything else for bass

MC wrote:So why aren't all analog synths using v/hz oscillators? They do not scale equally when using any modulation - pitch wheel or LFO or other modulation.

Have you ever tried to get your T3 to track the Voyager's pitch output? When you plug it in, it is an interval. It tracks well, but theres no way to get it "unison". It's like a third interval or something. I was wondering if you might know. If I remember correctly, there is a converter on the cv input but attenuation didn't help.


Eric

EricK wrote:

MC wrote:So why aren't all analog synths using v/hz oscillators? They do not scale equally when using any modulation - pitch wheel or LFO or other modulation.

Have you ever tried to get your T3 to track the Voyager's pitch output? When you plug it in, it is an interval. It tracks well, but theres no way to get it "unison". It's like a third interval or something. I was wondering if you might know. If I remember correctly, there is a converter on the cv input but attenuation didn't help.

Never did try that (digs out VX-351)

Im digging my Taurus pedals ouf of the box this weekend. (My studio is in three different counties at the moment.)

@ Alien: Thanks for the tip. If I could hear them personally (and test them with my own ears as you suggest), maybe I wouldn't be asking for second-hand opinions. When the time comes, though, I am sure my own opinion on the matter will be much more informed one way or the other and I won't have to rely on YouTube videos and their somewhat degraded audio.

@ Muksys: Thanks for the helpful feedback - I appreciate it. It is good to know that the Minitaur is stable and has a relatively quick warmup time - that is very important to my workflow. The only way the Minitaur would lose out to the Mopho would be if the former took forever to warmup, a-la SP. But this is good to know. Thanks partner.

If there are any other Minitaur users who would like to share their experience with warmup times/oscillator stability/etc., I would appreciate the feedback.

Thanks again everyone.

MC wrote:

EricK wrote:

MC wrote:So why aren't all analog synths using v/hz oscillators? They do not scale equally when using any modulation - pitch wheel or LFO or other modulation.

Have you ever tried to get your T3 to track the Voyager's pitch output? When you plug it in, it is an interval. It tracks well, but theres no way to get it "unison". It's like a third interval or something. I was wondering if you might know. If I remember correctly, there is a converter on the cv input but attenuation didn't help.

Never did try that (digs out VX-351)

you mean i can't use the t3 with my other synth's by cv ?
that would be a bad thing, hard to believe, though haven't tried it yet myself...

EricK wrote:

MC wrote:So why aren't all analog synths using v/hz oscillators? They do not scale equally when using any modulation - pitch wheel or LFO or other modulation.

Have you ever tried to get your T3 to track the Voyager's pitch output? When you plug it in, it is an interval. It tracks well, but theres no way to get it "unison". It's like a third interval or something. I was wondering if you might know. If I remember correctly, there is a converter on the cv input but attenuation didn't help.


Eric

I tried this a while ago and found that it depended on the last note played on the T3. If I played an E and then used VXL keyboard CV to T3 pitch everything worked as expected. Play any other note on the T3 and I ended up with an interval of the target note, if I remember it was different intervals depending on the note last "keyed" on the T3.

Just putting my nose in this thread.

I have been using the slim phatty for just two days now,

and even if It's WAY more stable than the dopefer modular I previously used [live, it was an emersonesque nightmare]

I am a bit worried: I bought the phatty for live use,

and it took an hour to go from a WHOLE FLAT TONE to a decent tuning.

Of course; I am accustomed to the guitar-like tuning process of the modular, so... just grabbing the "fine tune" knob every now and then will be an improvement anyway , but...

... one hour to warm up?

Since this has happened the very first time I turned it on and played,

should I maybe calibrate the whole thing, see if warm up time improves? (I don't think so, but I will ask anyway to people who know phattys better than I do).

(On the other hand, I left the phatty on the whole night, the morning after it was basically in tune. Pretty stable).

It's one thing to have the whole keyboard flat or sharp equally from one end to the other while the synth is warming up. It's then just a question of touching up the master fine tune from time to time.

But it's an entirely different thing to have the scaling completely off, rendering the synth unplayable, until it's warmed-up! My Korg Monopoly is that way for about 1-2 whole minutes after power-up. After that it's sharp on the whole keyboard for about 5-10 minutes, and slowly goes down to being in tune (if I let the master knob where it was the last time I played).

Most analog oscillators have a warming up time, some short some long. It's a fact of life.

marty wrote:I tried this a while ago and found that it depended on the last note played on the T3. If I played an E and then used VXL keyboard CV to T3 pitch everything worked as expected. Play any other note on the T3 and I ended up with an interval of the target note, if I remember it was different intervals depending on the note last "keyed" on the T3.

Thanks, Marty.
Up until Friday my T3 was in another county. I finally reunited it with my Voyager.

This is an odd response from the Taurus. I still felt like it was slightly flat on the Cmaj scale a second ago when I tested it out.
I wonder why E would be the magic note instead of C.

Thanks for pointing this out.


Eric