Moog Music Forum

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms but does anyone have experience with both the Big Briar and Moog Moogerfoogers?

I've read on the Internet that the Bigb Briars are better built especially in the knob area (specifically the cp-251) and that the BB has more high end on the phaser.

Can anyone validate these claims or have any other quality difference comments?

Thanks

The later cp-251's are better for me. They have attenuverters. The red nut units do not.
I find no difference between them other than the color of the stain on the cheek blocks and the logos. The phasers sound the same to me. (I have one of each.)

Here's a little story about gear people.

Company A makes widgets. They make a lot of widgets. They have a lot of Widgets that say Company A.
Then, imagine company A changes their name to Company B. They rebrand the widgets in the warehouse with a COmpany B logo.

There will be a contingent of gear heads who will swear up and down that the old widgets are way better.

YOU KNOW ITS TRUEEEEEE!!!

Do you mean attenuators? It looks like from the pictures that the red nut versions did have attenuators.

77jordan wrote:Do you mean attenuators? It looks like from the pictures that the red nut versions did have attenuators.

They have attenuators but they don't invert the voltage. The newer ones can also be used to invert as well as attenuate,

How do you tell the difference between a newer one that can invert the voltage and an older one just by visually inspecting it?

Thanks

The ones with the red nuts are described as having the ability to invert voltages:

https://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/cp-25 ... %20outputs.

The VSE page is kind of confusing.

The VSE page wrote:The CP-251 has four Inputs for up to four control voltages (two may be from expressions pedals) which can be sent to as many as three destinations. Controls include input attenuators, master gain and offset levels. Both inverting an non-inverting outputs. A Lag Processor limits the rate of change per control signal from as fast as one volt per millisecond

You should read that:

The CP-251 mixer section has 4 inputs and 2 destinations. [...]
Mixer controls include input attenuators, master gain and offset levels.
The Mixer has two outputs, one of which is inverting the resulting signal.

As a conclusion, this part here does not relate to attenuators vs attenuverters as discussed earlier. Attenuators/attenuveters are located in the two rightmost columns of knob/jacks.
On red/black nut units, the knobs are graduated from 0 to 10: attenuators.
On white ring units, the knobs are graduated from -5 to +5: attenuverters.
On both type of units, the sections are labelled "Attenuators" though.

aen wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:30 pm There will be a contingent of gear heads who will swear up and down that the old widgets are way better.

YOU KNOW ITS TRUEEEEEE!!!

It certainly is
That being said, I've heard that Big Briars units were built with through-hole components whereas MoogMusic ones were built with surface mount components. Is that correct? (Not saying that THC sound better, heh? )

The VSE website has a LOT of errors.

stiiiiiiive wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:11 pm...
That being said, I've heard that Big Briars units were built with through-hole components whereas MoogMusic ones were built with surface mount components. Is that correct? (Not saying that THC sound better, heh? )

My MF-102 Ring Mod, my MF-103 Phaser and my MF-104Z are all THC.
Only my MF-105 Turf is SMD.