Moog Music Forum

Hi all, this is my first post to this forum, so please be patient if I inadvertitely may infringe some rules here.
I posted the following requests to other forums, but had no reply; maybe I asked the wrong places; I hope better luck here (and sorry for cross posting if someone read this same message elsewhere).

Since some weeks I decided to build a clone of a Moog 55, as the ones that pop up now and then for sale are absolutely unaffordable for me.
I collected a lot of photos, schematics and other documentation from the internet, but I have not the real thing at hand, so I wonder if someone could help me with some information I need in order to start the work.

The information I need for now is mainly dimensions, that is:
- the exact height and depth (top and bottom) of the sloped cabinet;
-the height of the short (control) panels at bottom of the sloped cabinet; it appears to be 3U, but I would like to confirm this measure;
- the height and depth of the inner frame of modules, the frame to which pcbs are attached.
I tried to derive these dimensions from photos, but I'm not sure they are exact.

Finally, I have read in other threads that someone already asked for photos of modules' pcbs, but I could find almost no photo or reference. Should someone be willing to share such photos (even in private, if there are copyright or other issues), would be of great help.

Thank you and regards from Italy
Leonardo

I think it will be a LOT of work. I would probably try someone like COTK and order a system from them..
If you want a perfect replica then I guess you will have to build zourself a system but it would be a lot of work.

It's clearly a lot of work. If it were as easy as say building a Music From Outer Space modular there would be Moog clones all over.

I personally would not worry about getting exact dimensions so early on, it's sort of a cart before the horse kind of situation. I would concentrate on maybe breadboarding the circuits since many of the schematics are easy to find. Photos of PCBs can't hurt but one might argue that the PCBs were designed for 35+ year old parts that were generally much larger and hard to find. You will have decisions to make as to substituting new parts, finding new ones that don't change things in bad sounding ways, or perhaps trying to source old parts and deal with testing them since they may have deteriorated.

I presume you've seen http://yusynth.net/index_en.php - it's a great site documenting building Moog-like modulars.

Thank you dlmorley and nicholas d. kent for your replies.
I know it is a lot of work. I browsed most (perhaps all) of the possible alternative options available on the web. Not that I reputed them of less value; but the 55 is a dream of a lifetime for me. In the end, I decided to try to build a replica as exact as possible. I don't aim to make a false, that is, a system to be presented as an original exemplar; just would like to make things as close to original as possible, so, for example, I will not mark anything with the moog logo.

nicholas wrote:
>I personally would not worry about getting exact dimensions so early on, it's sort of a cart before the
>horse kind of situation.

Well, my plan is to make the case with wiring and power supply first, and then add modules as soon as they are ready. At present, I have designed a 3D drawing of the case, with dimensions and details derived from documentation and photos. I have prepared the walnut boards also, and I'm waiting to confirm data before cutting them to measure. Of course, I will go on using those dimensions if I don't find the exact ones within a reasonably short time.

In the meantime, I'm designing the panels layout for the 921A and 921B modules and, as soon as they will be ready, I will design the PCBs, some photos of which I found on this forum, thanks to the guys who shared them.

>I would concentrate on maybe breadboarding the circuits since many of the
>schematics are easy to find. Photos of PCBs can't hurt but one might argue that the PCBs were designed
>for 35+ year old parts that were generally much larger and hard to find. You will have decisions to make
>as to substituting new parts, finding new ones that don't change things in bad sounding ways, or perhaps
>trying to source old parts and deal with testing them since they may have deteriorated.

I found almost all of the schematics I need from the service manual and elsewere on the internet. I don't like working with bradboards, so I think I will proceed with home-made PCBs.
I like moog's approach of making standard-sized PCBs for most of the modules, with their metal frames. I see that in some cases components are sparse and it may appear a waste of space, but I don't mind this aspect.
You are right when saying that modern components are different from old ones, and I am aware of the problems with NOS parts. Actually, I don't intend to use old components in this project at any cost; I don't mean "as close as possible to the original" as fetishism. Issues will arise with hard-to-find obsolete semiconductors; I will face them as soon as they occur.

>I presume you've seen http://yusynth.net/index_en.php - it's a great site documenting building Moog-like
>modulars.

Yes, of course. I enjoied Yves' site, and downloaded most of the materials he kindly shares on his site. Curiously enough, the story of my passion for synths is quite similar to his, as described in his introductory page. Even my age is just a few months different from his Not that I want to compare Yves' wonderful achievements with nonexistent mine, of course.

I fear that this project is going to grow as a sort of "reinventing the wheel"; it appears that several guys out there already made many of the things I'm trying to do, but I'm finding troubles even for obtaining a few measures. Anyway, I love to play with DIY electronics, and will be extremely grateful to all who want to share something.

Leonardo

Hi,

I've just started the same project - building a System 55.

Yesterday I finished the pcb layout of my first module in this project, a reproduction of a 904B. Of course I don't know whether it works until I built the module

Here are some data of the System 55:

Main cabinet: Width: 48.5", Height: 15", Bottom depth: 14" Top depth: 8.5"
Upper cabinet: Width: 48.5", Height: 10", Depth: 8.5"
Modules: 8.75" x 2.125" or factors / fractions of that sizes

Well, I don't think I will ever see an original part of a System 55, so I started to create my own pcb layout. I've done that already for my first modular, a Formant, to be able to build modules / boards of sizes I want.

Cheers

Carsten

Hi Leonardo
I am sure you will really enjoy building a replica. I had a Moog IIc years ago and loved it but the realisation that I wanted a bigger system but couldn't afford it led me to look elsewhere. I got lucky and found a large Polyfusion so I didn;t have the same problem as you do.
My feeling is that it will be more expensive building a replica than going top an existing builder. You could always replicate the front panels and use certain existing modules from makers such as .com or COTK etc (especially stuff like mixers and control modules) and bulld replicas of the more critical modules.
In any case I wish you luck! It should be a fun project.
David

Hi all, and thank you very much, Carsten, for sharing data about the cabinet. I have redrawn my design so now I'm ready to complete it. It's nice to hear that someone else is bringing forth the same project. I hope some collaboration will be possible in the future.

David wrote:
>My feeling is that it will be more expensive building a replica than going top an existing builder. You
>could always replicate the front panels and use certain existing modules from makers such as .com or
>COTK etc (especially stuff like mixers and control modules) and bulld replicas of the more critical
>modules.

This is another possible idea.
As regards to modules, for now I'm planning to build the 921A first, that is the module for which I have the most complete documentation, just to figure out all implications in terms of time and cost, then I will evaluate.

>In any case I wish you luck! It should be a fun project.

Thank you !!

Leonardo

Hi Leonardo,

yes, it would be fine to share ideas and experiences. I think the 921 is one of the more complex modules to build and your experiences with it would be very interesting for me.

Thanks in advance

Carsten
http://www.analog-monster.de/index_en.html

dombedos wrote:Hi all, and thank you very much, Carsten, for sharing data about the cabinet. I have redrawn my design so now I'm ready to complete it. It's nice to hear that someone else is bringing forth the same project. I hope some collaboration will be possible in the future.
...
This is another possible idea.
As regards to modules, for now I'm planning to build the 921A first, that is the module for which I have the most complete documentation, just to figure out all implications in terms of time and cost, then I will evaluate.

As someone who has been trying to reproduce vintage modulars for the past several years, I've been working on Serge and Buchla repros, I'd say that the cabinet and particularly the front panels are often the most difficult and time consuming aspects of reproduction. So, in a lot of ways, it might be the best place to start one's project. I think you'd find it makes a lot of sense to finish the enclosure and faceplates, and start populating them with PCBs, rather than vice versa. This way you could begin testing and using modules immediately.

I've always thought about reproducing Moog 900 modules myself, but, they're the most difficult to accurately reproduce of any vintage modules due to the rounded panels, fully enclosed pcbs, and white on black labeling.

I recently learned about a company in the Midwest US that can manufacture the panels and print the graphics, and has been doing so for a third-party dot com module maker. It's not super cheap, but, it's possible at least. I have their name and address if someone wants it.

Are either of people doing Moog modular projects planning on putting their progress and research on-line?

Hm. Interesting approach.

For the front panels I want to try out Schaeffer Apparatebau in Germany. They are also quite expensive, but seem to be very flexible.

My fears concerning the Moog 900 modules are to get them working with new components. That's why I startet with one module to see whether I get along with it.

If I have success with with my first module, I will share experiences and show results on my homepage http://www.analog-monster.de

If there isn't a report in the near future, I failed

Carsten

eric coleridge wrote:As someone who has been trying to reproduce vintage modulars for the past several years, I've been working on Serge and Buchla repros, I'd say that the cabinet and particularly the front panels are often the most difficult and time consuming aspects of reproduction. So, in a lot of ways, it might be the best place to start one's project. I think you'd find it makes a lot of sense to finish the enclosure and faceplates, and start populating them with PCBs, rather than vice versa. This way you could begin testing and using modules immediately.

I've always thought about reproducing Moog 900 modules myself, but, they're the most difficult to accurately reproduce of any vintage modules due to the rounded panels, fully enclosed pcbs, and white on black labeling.

I recently learned about a company in the Midwest US that can manufacture the panels and print the graphics, and has been doing so for a third-party dot com module maker. It's not super cheap, but, it's possible at least. I have their name and address if someone wants it.

Are either of people doing Moog modular projects planning on putting their progress and research on-line?

analogmonster wrote: My fears concerning the Moog 900 modules are to get them working with new components. That's why I startet with one module to see whether I get along with it.

If I have success with with my first module, I will share experiences and show results on my homepage http://www.analog-monster.de

Modules like the 911 or 902 probably won't be so difficult.
But modules like the 921B or 960 might.

Well if nothing else, the background image on your site was easy.
I built that synth. But I didn't start from scratch either.

I wish you luck. You're going to need it to build a good Moog 55 clone.

Thanks...

Kevin Lightner wrote:
Modules like the 911 or 902 probably won't be so difficult.
But modules like the 921B or 960 might.

Well if nothing else, the background image on your site was easy.
I built that synth. But I didn't start from scratch either.

I wish you luck. You're going to need it to build a good Moog 55 clone.

dombedos wrote:Thank you dlmorley and nicholas d. kent for your replies.
I know it is a lot of work. I browsed most (perhaps all) of the possible alternative options available on the web. Not that I reputed them of less value; but the 55 is a dream of a lifetime for me. In the end, I decided to try to build a replica as exact as possible. I don't aim to make a false, that is, a system to be presented as an original exemplar; just would like to make things as close to original as possible, so, for example, I will not mark anything with the moog logo.

<deleted>

I fear that this project is going to grow as a sort of "reinventing the wheel"; it appears that several guys out there already made many of the things I'm trying to do, but I'm finding troubles even for obtaining a few measures. Anyway, I love to play with DIY electronics, and will be extremely grateful to all who want to share something.

Leonardo

I applaud your efforts and goal. I just finished resurrecting the Steiner-Parker Synthasystem (the modular Nyle Steiner and Dick Parker were selling in the 70s). My web site is here:

http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html

I, too wanted to stay as true as reasonable and I had a great time with it. I had the benefit, however, of knowing Nyle and he helped a lot with debugging the PCBs as I got them laid out and made. Good luck with it all!

David

Schaeffer has advantages of being fairly easy to have quality metal panels completed. That said, they do not resemble vintage module front panels closely at all. As far as I know the type and linework is engraved and then filled in with a color.

I see from Carsten's site that he's not replicating original designs so they might work great for him. I just wanted to point out that I don't think they are a real choice for trying to reproduce an existing module very precisely (unless of course the module had it's front panel made by Schaeffer)

I don't know if these will help, but here's a couple 450dpi scans of two unpopulated Moog panels, a 921B VCO and 902 VCA.
Jack placement is up to you unfortunately. (they didn't scan)

http://www.synthfool.com/moog921b.jpg

http://www.synthfool.com/moog902.jpg