Orange Amplifiers with Minimoog

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brown
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Orange Amplifiers with Minimoog

Post by brown » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:04 pm

I'm looking at buying a old vintage Minimoog Model D. I'm wondering what [b]affordable[/b] amp manufactured by Orange Amplifiers would be a good match for the Minimoog.

As an added criteria, I want to be able to run a bass guitar through the same amp (though not simultaneously).

I would post this same question on the Orange Amp forum, but I want only Moog enthusiasts to help me on this one.

Thanks!

Don
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Post by Don » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:28 pm

Define what you mean by "affordable."

What's affordable to one person may be way too much to another.

brown
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Post by brown » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:39 pm

under $1000

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MC
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Post by MC » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:28 am

You answered your own question. You want to alternate between Minimoog and bass guitar, so buy a bass amp. That narrows it down, now all you need to decide is how much wattage you need. If you're playing live on stage, you need minimum 200 watts. In the studio, a smaller amp will suffice. I'm not familiar with the Orange amp line.

brown
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according to a recent post

Post by brown » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:17 am

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1004

this post talks about the high octave sounds and continous frequency. Both of these things worry me about buying strictly a bass amp.

This amp is not for gigging, but strictly for studio use/home practicing and jamming in basement.

Don
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Post by Don » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:02 am

Orange amps are expensive, tube amps. You might be able to find one used for under $1000.00 on eBay, but if you want something new, you'll have to pay a lot more.

A synth is capable of sounding like anything from a flute to a deep bass, everything in between, and things that have ranges that exceed both. Many years ago, as I recall, Orange made amps that could reproduce those ranges. Now, they make guitar and bass amps. Period.

If you're keeping the volume down, and don't care how bad the sound is, get any Orange amp you can afford. Frankly, I don't know why you're limiting yourself, but that's up to you.

If you're not getting a combo amp, get speakers for a P.A. system. Peavey is good for that, so are Alesis, Mackey, etc.

Frankly, I would suggest getting a good PA system. There are lots of good ones for under $1,000. Check out the B-52 at GC--they've got 'em with subwoofers and smaller full-range speakers. You might also try the new Bose system, altho that's more than you wanted to spend.

If you want that "almost a Marshall roar" (that Orange amps are famous for) for your bass (and for some synth lines), get an overdrive pedal.

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MC
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Post by MC » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:54 pm

this post talks about the high octave sounds and continous frequency. Both of these things worry me about buying strictly a bass amp.

That is actually a slight exaggeration. I have been playing bass guitar and moog bass for over twenty years, I know these things well.

Bass guitars do have dynamic peaks and decay transients, but the fundamental remains strong and has the longest decay of all the harmonics in a wound string. And the fundamental of a bass guitar puts the most demand on a bass amp and speakers. Continuous playing of a bass guitar is not much different of a power demand than the steady state tone of a Minimoog.

Headroom is the spec of interest. The dynamic peaks of bass guitars and synths puts a demand on the amp AND the speakers. If your bass amp doesn't have sufficient headroom, then the amp will clip on those transients and your speakers may not be so forgiving of clipping.

My gigging amp of choice is an old 1979 Moog Synamp, built like a tank and has two 200 watt power amps - more than adequate for gigging. For studio stereo, you want minimum 100 watts at 8 ohms per side with a good subwoofer. I started out with a Crown D75 rated at 40 watts at 8 ohms per side and I quickly found it wasn't enough.

Your real concern should be the speakers. Continuous playing of Moog bass timbres is the acid test of bass speakers, because there is a lot of excursion on the cone and there will be heat on the coil that has to be dissipated.

The larger the cone, the more efficient it is at moving air at low frequency therefore an 15" speakers has less work to do than a 10" speaker. The smaller the speaker, the further the in-out excursion it has to exercise in order to push the same SPL air pressure as a bigger speaker, and you risk tearing the cone. Cabinet construction and multiple speaker arrangements do impact the performance, witness the 4x10 Hartke cabinets popular with bassists (although I prefer 2x15).

The better speakers have more rugged materials in the cone. If the cone is stiff enough and does not flex/twist with large excursions then it is more efficient at pushing air pressure. The better speakers also superior material on the outer rim that can withstand extreme excursions without ripping itself to pieces. Nasty spikes from a Minimoog can reduce an inferior speaker to shreds.

Bass playing increases the current through a speaker coil and this generates heat. A speaker with a one inch diameter coil will not be able to dissipate heat as well as a two inch coil. There is less surface area on a one inch coil, so heat will accumulate faster and you will burn open a coil wire, resulting in a dead speaker.

That is why one poster in that thread blew his stereo speakers playing his synth through his stereo. You can easily generate nasty audio peaks with a synth. When you buy a record/CD, the mastering process at the studio tames those nasty peaks to minimize damage of consumer stereos, and it keeps the radio broadcasters happy. Stereo consumer hifi speakers are not designed to withstand the extreme transients that a synth can create, the speakers do not have large coils and the cones are not very rugged.

brown
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Post by brown » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:44 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply MC...

The chance of me getting a synamp in my possession is rare however.

So now I pose this question: Someone gives you $700 to buy an amp for your Minimoog....so what are you going to buy? Provide a link if possible.

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MC
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Post by MC » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:14 pm

The chance of me getting a synamp in my possession is rare however.


Yes, they are not easy to come by.

So now I pose this question: Someone gives you $700 to buy an amp for your Minimoog....so what are you going to buy? Provide a link if possible.


That's easy. Barbetta 31c - my friend has one and it does a Moog justice. Even my Taurus pedals sounded good with it. Don't let the compact size and small speakers fool you, this is a good sounding amp.

http://www.pro-dj-equipment.com/product-11655.html

HowIMadeMyMillions
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Post by HowIMadeMyMillions » Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:06 pm

I think the crispness of a VOX or a Mesa amp would be more suitable for a mini and bass. I adore orange guitar amps (the OR120's are amazing with a Ric) but I dunno if you're going to get all the bang outta yer buck with an orange bin.

suitandtieguy
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Post by suitandtieguy » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:52 pm

as far as the good-idea-ness of playing a Minimoog through an Orange, don't forget that Keith Emerson ran the modular through an Orange stack.

i think that speaks for itself, because Keith Emerson is master of the good idea.


don't ask me which Orange though ... i know NOTHING about that amp line.
me and my music - http://suitandtieguy.com
my modules - http://stgsoundlabs.com

alphajerk
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Post by alphajerk » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:21 pm

orange made a PA system as well... might be what you are wanting, and probably less $$$ than their amps, which are becoming more saought after.

also, ever try a fender bassman?

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