Moog Music Forum

They are about the same price, here in Australia. I want an extra audio oscillator with tri/sqr/saw waveforms to modulate the Voyager CV's in the audio range. FreqBox can do that, but the Dark Energy throws in the VCF and VCA! Anyone have thoughts?

i prefer the freq box 'cos it have the envelope follower, so you can plug a guitar to control the vco, i'm buyng the freqbox too for these reason...i only want to understand if is possible to track the pitch of VCO with guitar and then control the voyager's oscillators...

Man, if they are the same price, definitely get the Dark Energy! the DE is almost 2x the cost of the freqbox in the US!
Either they are ripping you off for the Freqbox, or you are getting a super deal on the Dark Energy.

The DE is a full 1 osc synth, with 2 LFO's plus VCF, VCA, envelope generator, plus a MIDI/USB interface, plus multiple CV/audio outs, plus hackable
jumpers inside for more fun, audio in, etc.
The FreqBox is only an OSC, and frankly if you want only the OSC, the env follower is a bit of a pain to work with.
It's nice, but but no-where near as feature full.
Also, the DE tracks perfectly 1V/oct, the Freqbox tracking is a bit rougher.

existenz - it's not possible to track frequency with the Freqbox, it doesn't know from frequency.
It uses hard sync to re-trigger it's osc, which makes it play in tune with whatever you stick
in the audio input - you cannot use it to control another osc. check the outputs and you will see what I mean.

cliffman wrote:Man, if they are the same price, definitely get the Dark Energy! the DE is almost 2x the cost of the freqbox in the US!
Either they are ripping you off for the Freqbox, or you are getting a super deal on the Dark Energy.

The DE is a full 1 osc synth, with 2 LFO's plus VCF, VCA, envelope generator, plus a MIDI/USB interface, plus multiple CV/audio outs, plus hackable
jumpers inside for more fun, audio in, etc.
The FreqBox is only an OSC, and frankly if you want only the OSC, the env follower is a bit of a pain to work with.
It's nice, but but no-where near as feature full.
Also, the DE tracks perfectly 1V/oct, the Freqbox tracking is a bit rougher.

Right now, FB is A$499 and DE is A$574 (forgot about our local taxes before). For an extra $75, its a good deal.

Clicking Buy button now... From the audio demoes, it does perfectly good audio range AM/FM by itself and is far more than a FreqBox. I might want to use it more on its own than an addition to the voyager. My only thought is how strong the audio level is to drive the Voyager CV's. I really would like the raw waves to do this. Hacking the DE might be coming up...

wow just looked here - $625 US for DE - $330-350 for a FB. So, I'd say the FB is priced too high,
and you are getting a fine deal on the Dark Energy!

The DE is afaik same levels as Doepfer modular stuff, so it should work fine without mods.

Just got the Dark Energy. This is not a toy. Good tuning stability, good waveforms (well, slight bump in saw wave), midi connection from Voyager and audio output to Voyager Ext In instantly adds a 4th oscillator which tracks perfectly. Plugging the Dark Energy audio output into the Voyager Pitch, Wave, Filter or Amp inputs modulates as you would expect. Lowest the Dark Energy VCO goes is 5Hz or so - not real LFO range so I still don't have a good saw LFO. While I really only wanted an oscillator, the vcf and vca don't get in the way if you want a raw waveform. This is more versatile than I was expecting. The 1/8 sockets are sturdier than I thought. And it looks like a Moog product too...

Can the Dark Energy be interfaced with instrument level inputs (e.g., guitar, bass)?

I don't have a Dark Engergy but there is an External Audio In jack that allows for external audio to be mixed with VCO output which is pre-filter. (Similar to the Little Phatty and other synths)

So static effect on your incoming signal can certainly be done (ie. playing through a filter), or you can attach a foot pedal to control cutoff/resonance to alter the resulting sound while playing.

You could benefit from having an envelope follower such as present on the FreqBox (107) of Lowpass Filter (101) foogers. From there, you can play your guitar or other instrument through the box and have the CV (envelope) patched into the Dark Engergy for dynamic playing (that tracks amplitude, for instance).

There are other options if you have modular gear. Synth.com makes a so-called instrument interface: http://www.synthesizers.com/q118.html from which you can take the Env output from the incoming signal. It's a special purpose module but adds flexibility with the utility of a threshold gate (ie, the threshold pot can be tuned such that each time your amplitude crosses a certain level it will send a Gate signal out and you can take this to trigger another ASDR to possibly alter another envelope which may be set to control some other aspect of the Dark Energy.

The Synth.com stuff is really affordable but keep in mind, you'll need a 'starter' kit (power supply and some way to mount/rack them). Low cost options here as well especially if you are handy.

Hope this helps.

I think the question is more about the input and output levels because the Foogers allow anything from guitar to CD player levels. The Dark Energy deals in large signals around 1v peak to peak in and out. Unless you boost the guitar, the level wil be very low to the DE. The DE output is high and not all that adjustable - seems odd but there is no master level because it is a synth module. I'm not sure the DE will be happy in a chain of guitar level devices.

Note that my original post is not suggesting the Dark Energy can replace a FreqBox. I wanted an audio range oscillator for my Voyager. DE is not a Fooger - that odd quirky love child of analog modules and guitar/bass/microphone effects.

So, it seems that an electric bass could in fact be implemented with the DE, but results would probably be less than satisfactory. I do have a few foogers (I.e., low-pass, ring mod, & the freq box). Would running an instrument via those (assuming I could boost the level via the drive knob in the ring mod or other fooger) allow me to modify the resulting output into the DE to a level that the DE actually likes (I.e., so that the DE would process the signal as though it were coming from a synth)?

I plugged my guitar into my MIDI MuRF then into the Dark Energy. The guitar levels are definitely too low for the DE. It is possible to hear the guitar (although a lot quieter than the DE oscillator) with the MuRF drive all the way up, in other words distorted. It is almost inaudible at a lower clean setting. You will need a 20db booster to get the guitar/fooger level up to the DE, then either be very careful with the VCA setting to keep it low or use something to attenuate the leve (I used the Voyager CV expander attenuator). Not really plug and play with Foogers.

It did remind me that the MurF is a lot of fun with a guitar though!

Ah.. I thought you would be driving your guitar/bass with a pre (preferably tube based). Certainly guitar straight into a DE (I would guess) is to low a signal. I've pushed a Bass w/active pickups straight into a Phatty (no level control) but you do need a good preamp and not just a 'drive' via Fooger, that will distort before the level becomes usable.

Don't know how the Dark Energy compares to Little Phatty or Voyager as far level tolerances are concerned, I would think they are similar.

Did you do anything interesting with the DE or just drive the filter cutoff via LFO? Would like to hear; I've never heard a DE except on YouTube (SonicState's review is pretty good but you lose alot of the fatness due to the encoding of YouTube, etc.)

I frankly had more fun with the MuRF. But I did low frequency and audio range modulation on the amp and filter for tremolo, wah and RM type sounds. I don't find them very useful because the modulating frequency is fixed, or at least doesn't track the note I am playing. IMO the Dark Energy kind of replaces the low pass filter and ring modulator foogers with the Voyager. Not exactly of course but because I have the DE now, those foogers are very expensive for providing similar sonic territory. The DE LFO freq can't be controlled by CV so that is a little limiting.

My feeling is that if you are using modular synth levels then the DE is great. If you are using low level guitar and bass then the foogers are uniquely suited.

I haven't looked that closely at DE (jacks in/out). Does it have a true CV controlled VCA? Is it possible to quickly modulate for a low-budget trem effect?

Any idea how the DE compares to the Oberheim SEM? I had an SEM next up on my list but curious what you might think about that as I'm sure you considered it.

Thanks.