Moog Music Forum

Kevin Lightner wrote:I think the idea is that if you're not a serious keyboardist, 25 keys is enough.
If you are a serious keyboardist, you would also have a master keyboard that's much larger.

If you play keyboards like me more then three or four keys is going to confuse you.

A Little Phatty with knobs ? Great!

But I can't help but feel that's what the original should have been from the start...

And let's hope that the sound quality will be there from the get go ? Not like some other Moog Music's products that required either hardware or software modifications to get an acceptable amount of higher harmonics at fully opened filter ?...

EMwhite wrote: Certainly is a looker and the Euro crowd will find it aesthetically fitting in quite well with their other gear.

...if it puts out true 1.0 V/octave signal, and not 0.93 V or 0.978 V or 1.04V... Then if this Sub Phatty can't produce any pitches higher than middle C, they would at least have the option of driving their modular oscillators in tune from the Sub Phatty keyboard.

I imagine a 44-key version of this thing (assuming it can play pitches above C4 (middle C) or even higher than C5) would bring the cost closer to $1700. At that point, it would actually be cheaper to get two Sub Phattys for playing Bach Two Part Inventions.

Kevin Lightner wrote:I think the idea is that if you're not a serious keyboardist, 25 keys is enough.
If you are a serious keyboardist, you would also have a master keyboard that's much larger.

Ugh, I'm sorry to focus on your response instead of the millions of others, but here it is.

It's a monophonic keyboard. You only need one note at a time. As such, you only really need one octave at a time. Unless, of course, your playing style or choice of repertoire has extremely fast multi-octave leaps... which I seriously seriously doubt.

Two octave keyboard? Who the hell cares? It's a single-note instrument that has octave changing immediately available. If you're a "serious keyboardist," you should be able to press a button at the point you need to change octaves. After all, YOU HAVE ONE HAND FREE.

All of that being said, I cultivate a playing style on monophonics where I integrate a melody and bass line. This can be seen in many of my videos. I would prefer to have more octaves so I can do that... but do I need to do that? No. Would I condemn an entire division of synthesizers, companies, or players because that wasn't possible? Uh, no.

The new Moog looks great! Can't wait to see/hear more.

Moog seems to be breaking their old tradition of those small 2 1/2 octave keyboards they had on the Micromoog, Prodigy, Rogue, and even the MG-1. For me, a 2 octave keyboard is just too limited. Even with octave switching only the C has three keys alowing two octaves. The 2 1/2 octave is a nice compromise, as one can play in F, F#, G, G#, A, Bb, and C with two octaves plus. Those extra 7 keys make a huge difference IMHO.

Just last night I was recording a lead with a Moog RME controlled via MIDI from a Minibrute keyboard. Had to swap out the Minibrute with a DSI Mopho because the DSI had the Moog style 32 key F to C board. I really thought the only gripe I had with a Minibrute was the missing 7 keys. Guess It's just my playing style, but I really needed the extra keys to play my musical phrases.

RME with 2 1/2 octave Mopho keyboard, just enough keys!

You're a musician, that's the problem : )

And you're right. You've got the range to have your bass hand centered on the C octave in the middle of that board easily drop down to the Bb, G# F#, etc. or up a bit. If you are hanging out around F, you can start up a bit, either way you've got those additional keys at your disposal.

If you are absolutely adept at switching octaves while playing (left hand skill) like Jordan Rudess, maybe you don't care. But I guess whomever makes the 2 octave keyboard that everybody is using, must charge a real premium for the additional keys and there is the answer.

If you are just 'doodling', maybe you can get by with 2 Octaves. (there, I used the word doodling twice in one day; I'm done...)

Yeah ~ totally agree with this ~and EM's point about fitting it in a rig and selling to a target market, too.
I have a boatload of keyboards, already. 88 keys make sense on a piano. Two smaller manuals with pedals make sense on the hammond. 5 Octaves work great on the Clavinet. The more I play my Moogs the less I think of them as being keyboards at all ~ hence my previous comments about the Touch Surface pad and various alternate controllers...
Rather than more keys ~ I would prefer to see a SLIM SUBBY without any keys at all

museslave wrote:It's a monophonic keyboard. You only need one note at a time. As such, you only really need one octave at a time. Unless, of course, your playing style or choice of repertoire has extremely fast multi-octave leaps... which I seriously seriously doubt.

Two octave keyboard? Who the hell cares? It's a single-note instrument that has octave changing immediately available.

For me personally, I've played on a 32 notes MG-1 for many years (it didn't have octave switching per say, you had to be really quick to flip both toggle switches on each oscillators), and 32 notes is a bare minimum.

44 notes is acceptable, 61 is good, 76 and 88 are overkill, especially on a monophonic synth.

So I agree with Kevin that, a 25 notes keyboard is too short for any serious music playing, even if one is very adept at flicking octave range toggle...

Just listen to this example from a one minute Minimoog D lead I've played (from 1:27 to 2:27) and I can tell you that I couldn't have played this on a 2 octave keyboard only, even with octave switching.

http://soundcloud.com/thealien666/night ... io-moroder

I'm one more in the 25-is-not-enough boat. I would prefer my left hand to knob around than switching octaves. I won't agree one occurence of each note is suffiecient neither. Some 70ies funk basslines involves octaves on more than a C, a really to fast to deal with an octave button.

The only point that prevents me from getting a MiniBrute is precisely this one. Awaiting for the Arturia's brainstorm results about any Brute or MaxiBrute.

So guys, this SubPhatty looks cool. I can see the LFO can modulate simultaneously pitch (all oscillators or osc 2 only), filter and wave with independant amounts.
There are those two knobs there... which are too far, too blur to be read...
Octave are set through rotary switches à la Voyager. Not sure about any global transposition buttons.

Cool

I would say I agree with the notion that 25 keys is too few for serious keyboarding. That's why I own a Voyager. What I do like about it is the portability factor. I can throw my Minibrute in a backpack and run out the door. I take it with me everywhere. I get a couple of hours each night at work where there's nothing going on, so I pull out my Minibrute and play (sorry, "doodle"). Can't do that with a Voyager, or even a Little Phatty. I'm looking forward to having the Phatty sound in a portable, knob-per-function package. I'll definitely buy one of these.

For me my (Electric Blue) Voyager already is the perfect portable synth
Don't get me wrong, I love a nice keyboard ~ my point is just that given it's 2013 ie we have MIDI it's not a big factor here ~ anyway I will wait to see and hear the actual finished product before I decide how soon I want one

Kenneth wrote:I would say I agree with the notion that 25 keys is too few for serious keyboarding. That's why I own a Voyager. What I do like about it is the portability factor. I can throw my Minibrute in a backpack and run out the door. I take it with me everywhere. I get a couple of hours each night at work where there's nothing going on, so I pull out my Minibrute and play (sorry, "doodle"). Can't do that with a Voyager, or even a Little Phatty. I'm looking forward to having the Phatty sound in a portable, knob-per-function package. I'll definitely buy one of these.

I can't wait to see the new synth. But to tell the truth...My dollars, this year, are going into a modular. I'm strongly headed in the Makenoise direction.

museslave wrote:

Kevin Lightner wrote:I think the idea is that if you're not a serious keyboardist, 25 keys is enough.
If you are a serious keyboardist, you would also have a master keyboard that's much larger.

Ugh, I'm sorry to focus on your response instead of the millions of others, but here it is.

It's a monophonic keyboard. You only need one note at a time. As such, you only really need one octave at a time. Unless, of course, your playing style or choice of repertoire has extremely fast multi-octave leaps... which I seriously seriously doubt.

Two octave keyboard? Who the hell cares? It's a single-note instrument that has octave changing immediately available. If you're a "serious keyboardist," you should be able to press a button at the point you need to change octaves. After all, YOU HAVE ONE HAND FREE.

All of that being said, I cultivate a playing style on monophonics where I integrate a melody and bass line. This can be seen in many of my videos. I would prefer to have more octaves so I can do that... but do I need to do that? No. Would I condemn an entire division of synthesizers, companies, or players because that wasn't possible? Uh, no.

Please tell that to Jan Hammer , Who is using his left hand for pitch bends and modulation. Oh thats right Kevin was referring to real keyboard players who need the 44 keys! IMHO

2 octaves seem limiting ... good. Limitations are a key to creativity. They'll make you play differently and think differently when you step in front of it. The voyager makes me think one way, microwave xt another, nord lead 3 another, etc. Make it one octave... I welcome the challenge. I'm just not impressed yet by the synth's features.

Now, back to the broncos vs.ravens game.

~S~

thealien666 wrote:For me personally, I've played on a 32 notes MG-1 for many years (it didn't have octave switching per say, you had to be really quick to flip both toggle switches on each oscillators), and 32 notes is a bare minimum.

44 notes is acceptable, 61 is good, 76 and 88 are overkill, especially on a monophonic synth.

So I agree with Kevin that, a 25 notes keyboard is too short for any serious music playing, even if one is very adept at flicking octave range toggle...

Just listen to this example from a one minute Minimoog D lead I've played (from 1:27 to 2:27) and I can tell you that I couldn't have played this on a 2 octave keyboard only, even with octave switching.

http://soundcloud.com/thealien666/night ... io-moroder

Great solo my friend! Nice chops!................Nothing like a model D solo to put a smile on your face.