Moog Music Forum

JohnLRice wrote:

MC wrote:

Vsyevolod wrote:The absolute worst way to start learning any modular is by starting with a large system...

It didn't hurt Keith Emerson

Keith started out relatively small, it was a borrowed system 35 (I think) and the owner tutored him and even went on stage to help him patch.

It started out as a single cabinet Ic modular but that is still bigger than the Moog 10/12/15 modular.

And large modulars didn't hurt Tangerine Dream or Klause Shulze either.

People, people, please ! Could you make better use of quotations ? It's getting tedious and confusing to re-read multiple imbedded quotations, some badly truncated, all the time ...
Thanks.

EricK wrote:Why is that "very unfair?" He is a good player but I just don't like his music.

No problems with not liking his work. I meant it was unfair to him to assess him by the Lucky Man solo which he didn't rate and which he only plays because people specifically ask him for it. If other people weren't asking him, he wouldn't play that solo at all. He's said that many times.

I think if you don't like what you've heard and you don't like Rick Wakeman either, you probably wouldn't be pleasantly surprised by anything I could suggest. That's perfectly reasonable, of course, and as you've said there are plenty of other interesting keyboard players.

"Could you better use quotations ?" -thealien666

Corrected.

Hey, here's the guy from Noddy's Puncture... the name's Tom, BTW. My take on this is that I already have my own Modular (sourced and imported to the UK with help from the Emerson camp...) and which I have extensively modified to also include one of my Minimoog's. I didn't actually want to make a three or four tier Emo-clone system. For one thing it would take too much to move around as I always intended to use it live. My band is an *expensive hobby*... so although I am willing to 'move gear' there is a limit. Hammonds, Leslies and a Modular, well you know what I mean..! Also I wanted a system base more on Keith's early set-up. With the 901 oscillators, I wanted the early sound. So knowing that it might end up shooting me in the foot 'live' I built in the Mini as insurance. Emo never had that modification but it don't bother me as I am making it 'my own'. And with some greatly appreciated help from CZ I have also managed to make a sure-fire modification which enables me to compensate for the scale drift of the 901a in about 10 seconds, live, on-stage with audience waiting..! The system has only been out once to date but I can report that it works a treat. I have copied elements such as Emo's TV screen & LED waveform gimmick and also made a pyro launcher for the ribbon controller... I love ELP's music and ALL Emo's Moog meanderings. My ELP tribute band tries to recreate all of that as well as the Hammond antics & dagger throwing...! The funny thing is, if Moog do make a handful of these and they go to rich buyers/collectors - I doubt if any of them will actually end up being used to it's full potential playing ELP music in a live setting. I'm probably the only one mad enough and fanatical enough to put myself through every thoroughly enjoyable second of it...!

By the way here's another video clip from my gig a couple of weeks ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR7PtzCBfw

Cheers,
Tom

Sweep wrote: And that leads me to the point with this remake of Keith Emerson's modular. There's a market for copy instruments - the David Gilmour black strat and so on. With this modular you presumably get pretty much what Emerson has, which is of course ideal for playing ELP stuff. For someone like the guy from Noddy's Puncture who sometimes posts here that looks to be ideal, and I'd like to hear his take on this.

thealien666 wrote:People, people, please ! Could you make better use of quotations ? It's getting tedious and confusing to re-read multiple imbedded quotations, some badly truncated, all the time ... purple monkey dishwasher.
Thanks.

totally agree

Thanks for that, Tom. I thought your contribution would be instructive, and it is. Your last point certainly is. It might be interesting to know, one day, how many of these got built and what happened to them.

That quick tuning adjustment certainly sounds interesting - and a very useful thing to have.

Incidentally there used to be another ELP tribute band, called Aquatarkus, who I think were Italian. I don't know if anyone here knows anything about them? Their keyboard player used a Korg MS10/20 setup, perhaps rather improbably - and got great results that way. I sometimes used to do Emerson stuff when I had an MS20, but it isn't what I'd choose if I was going onstage to do it for real, so I think he did an amazing job. And Keith Emerson mentioned back in the 80s that he'd seen ELP clone bands in Japan using Poly 800s and doing amazing feats of joystick waggling to get exactly the glitches he got the night they recorded Pictures at an Exhibition.

Another Emerson tribute band (The Nice)

http://youtu.be/8pV8nuPCOmQ

ColorForm2113 wrote:

megavoice wrote:FINE !!! And very intelligent !
And where are the "New Emersons" to play or to handle ????
And what kind of music should be played on for the "Modern People" ????
And where is the audience to listen to ????
And...............who (how many) is gonna be ready to pay that price for ????

you don't have to play like Emerson to use an Emerson modular. there is much greater possibilities with this system than just pulling out lucky man. whole albums of any sort of electronic music could be composed with this. from dance to ambient to noise to classical that's the great thing about modular synthesis, it's only limited by the users imagination and bank account.

Hi All,

I didn't want to mislead you with my post referring to Keith.
Of course, I didn't think about "Lucky Man" but even more of a wonderful and extraordinary prformance of a song I can't remember now any more, but with ELP.
But what I've meant was the overimpressing work he did when playing, plugging, unplugging and turnig the knobs either at the same time or sequently very sensible, LIVE and VERY performative.
My question was sooner, who's going to do like that nowadays and who of the common people with their present musical tastes will be interrested in to listen to ?

Please think all of you too, here in the expert circles it is talked about that a big mod system can only be produced in China to make it profitable for Moog.
It's very likely, components will be shipped ready for the last assemble from China to the US.
See Kurzweil, what is written upon: Developed in the US and assembled in Thailand (or Korea ?)
I've also heared about the new 2600 housing because of lacking quality there's a severe delay of delivery.
If you imagine that a Chinese worker is getting 1$ a day for work this makes sense.
Otherwise it's not believable to realize.

Yes, of course, there are a lot of enthusiasts and great experts who are very skillful to use a thing like that and making great music. But at the end the majority will be some sons of some oligarchs or very rich Saudi Arabians who can afford the huge amount of money for.

Who of a sensible and advanced musician would give 90ks for a product "Made in China" ?
It's very likely MOOG will assure firmly that this is not the case, but I won't believe them..........

megavoice wrote:Who of a sensible and advanced musician would give 90ks for a product "Made in China" ?
It's very likely MOOG will assure firmly that this is not the case, but I won't believe them..........

I got the impression from what info that has been released, that they sourced all new old stock vintage parts for this project.
Many of those parts are either not made anymore, or unique USA parts. They still make USA military spec pots like the ones used in the vintage Moog, but are rather expensive compared to the imported cheapo pots. ALPS pots are about $2 each, while those modern day AB type J pots made by Honeywell are $50 each. Same with those heavy duty Mallory rotary switches, Switchcraft jacks, down to the AMP Duo-tyne edge connectors. All USA made.
I have done exactly the same with clone parts/modules for my Moog. Surplus parts with those same old date codes can be found if you know where to look. Just recently found an unopend box of 10 AB type J pots in 25K linear. The stainless shafts were a little longer and had to be shortened. But there are probably wharehouses and basements full of those same made in USA parts the R.A.Moog modular used. Not something one could mass produce, but in limited quantities.
We do not know Moog's source for parts either. Could be they sourced the parts as I did individually or purchased a large lot of parts. Pretty sure they used all those good parts the vintage ones had. That is one of the big differences in quality of those old R.A.Moog modulars, and why so many 45 year old Moogs still play today.

Let me add my two cents here.

It's a well known fact that, from the very early days of the original Moog Music down to today's succession, the high cost of their instruments was/is due to the skilled handcrafting, assembly, and testing/burning-in done locally, passionately, by dedicated people and not only the higher cost of quality parts used. And of course like any other successful company these days, management has to find ways of controlling costs to still be able to offer competitively priced instruments too. So some outsourcing is inevitable, although they maintain the final assembly local for those products, otherwise Moog Music would have closed down long ago.

But as for special projects like this KE Modular reproduction, I seriously doubt that anything was outsourced (maybe the PCBs locally), especially not with this price tag. And I seriously doubt that more than two completed copies exists yet, and no other ones will be produced unless an Arab prince, who has money coming out of his ears, orders 10 or more.
I also doubt that Moog Music will start selling 5U modules separately. I feel this is a one time project, honouring the 50th anniversary of the introduction of the Moog Modular and the long collaboration between Keith and Bob, period.

TIFWIW.

I really wonder if Mike B liquidated some of his assets, because this clone isn't any different from what he was doing.

Or Kevin L. was looking to sell off all or some the parts from servicing Moogs. There were many stockpiles of parts out there. My best sources have been just average electronics shops and large suppliers with NOS. Wouldn't be surprised if Ben at Re:synthesis supplied all those panels though. He was the one that did the custom ELP panel back a while. So panels might be from the U.K., but not China.

Well one reason why I speculated that is because Brian Kehew and August Worley worked closely through the Foundation and Worley was a partner of Mike's.

I also am really curious about those inductor coils. I bet they came from the guy in Germany who winds them, but when I contacted you about those I also contacted Brian and he mentioned to me that there was no documentation on them. So I'm wondering how they got the values of the cores unless they measured them from their System 15 (that needs some soundlab love).