Modular or Voyager with foogers?

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:57 pm

In fairness, a lot of those demos are individuals demonstrating the sorts of sounds that their modular synths are capable of. I don't really see them as an intent to create music. Those videos are more like a demo by a musician at NAMM showing off a new guitar effect.

The real issue I have is that a lot of folks never get beyond making demos of equipment. Where's the music that they are making with this equipment?

Bryan

Bryan, I can appreciate what you are saying and I admit that many of these are just demos. As for using them in music, that is what I love about boards like this. To talk about how to use a product musically.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:17 pm

MarkM wrote:I think there are some people who love sound design, and they buy these amazing arrays of gear in order to create insane sounds. To these people the patch is the work of art, and many times the patch in an end in itself. It is a noble cause, and their enthusiasm for the gear is great and should be appreciated.

There are others who also are into sound design, but they find the patch a means to an end. Often these are musicians. As far as posting videos, I think the musician has more at stake: especially when it comes to anonymous internet criticism.

I guess I see myself as a composer but not in a traditional way. My end product is a sound track. How I get that is a process. Sometimes, I use patches almost as is and often, more often than not, layers of them including various effects. Right now, I am working with two studios because I take my time off from my day job at another location. One studio is completely computer based with a fastly aging computer that sputters and burbs digitally every time I push to much audio through it. I almost expect a little man to come out waving a CPU overload sign and a white flag.

My other studio is hardware based and pretty simple. A Korg M3, a rack of foogers and an Eventide Eclipse. I hope one day to get a Mac Book pro and move most of my software over to the Mac and then integrating that with the hardware studo and a 3 tiered stand.

I mention this because for me, be it designing a patch or performing, its all part of the same process. I also listen ot a lot of music, mostly classical and of that, mostly 20th century stuff as well as some electronic. I listen to jazz because I like it but I don't have the chops to play it effectively. None the less, I learned and incredble amount about music learning how to play it badly.

I consume books on music and am trying to learn harmony in a very systematic way as I would at a school of music. I also am trying lately to study musical scores of 20th century composers to pick up on technique.

Anyway, I mention this because I see no difference at least in my musical process, between sound design, performance and masterinig. It's all part of a process to me.

As for putting stuff out on the net. I can appeciate that people do this but I would love to see more on technique. I can appreicate that a modular can make the sound of a cross between a chicken and walrus in heat but I would love to hear about technique more be it video or otherwise.

Here is some of my music for what its worth. I am open to criticsm. I am a rank amateur but I try hard. It's free and I don't care what people do with it as long as I hope they can enjoy it:

http://soundcloud.com/lux_seeker/tracks

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:38 pm

Lux_Seeker wrote:Here is some of my music for what its worth. I am open to criticsm. I am a rank amateur but I try hard. It's free and I don't care what people do with it as long as I hope they can enjoy it:

http://soundcloud.com/lux_seeker/tracks

Thanks for sharing! You could definitely get some work in movies/tv/docs/ads with those sorts of tracks.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:00 pm

MC wrote:When hit by the impulse to buy gear, I ask myself "Can I justify it? Do I need it? Will it be used?" I have to separate the needs from the wants.

I really want a Buchla 200e but I don't need it, I wouldn't use it enough to justify the high cost. I love the way a Buchla forces you to be creative by getting as far away from east coast synthesis as possible. But I have heard little of anything musical of 200e shiplets, mostly bug music for lack of a better term. I did have flight time on a Buchla Music Easel and got some music out of it, but Buchlas are a reluctant machine for creating melodies.

I really want a modular but it would be a lot of work to integrate into my MIDI system and the only way to store patches is a digital camera.

I really want the new Taurus pedals and I will use them - MIDI bass pedals are very practical for me.

MC:

I love the equipment list.

I could probably do a lot with a John Deer tracktor. Slow it down and add some impulse response and mabye some foogers and who knows.

As for gear, yes, I agree with you. I also agree with you on the Buchla. I fell in love at an early age with Subotnick. My first electronic album (which at that time was vinyl) was Subotnick's Sidewinder which I still highly regard as an exception piece of old school electronic music. Now Subotnick used Buchla gear but he also used ghost tracks and some really creative but unbelievably painstacking ways of getting something signficant from a Buchla. With the MIDI interface of the 200e, it may be a lot easier now but there is also Volta which looks good enough to me to make me want to get a Macbook since its only on Mac (as is Metasynth, sigh).

A modular is probably in my future but its a toss up between that and a Mac. The Mac would allow me to integrate my two studios and keep the software on the Mac portable to I can take it wherever I want. I can't do that with the M3 without causing severe damage to my back. This thing is a very heavy beastie (I have the 88 key version, sounds great, breaks backs). To bad I don't have roadies.

At the moment, I am going to learn more about modulars, keep reading and studying and I hope, make more music. I can get lost in gear and it borthers me because I forget the end product, music.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:02 pm

Bryan T wrote:
Lux_Seeker wrote:Here is some of my music for what its worth. I am open to criticsm. I am a rank amateur but I try hard. It's free and I don't care what people do with it as long as I hope they can enjoy it:

http://soundcloud.com/lux_seeker/tracks
Thanks for sharing! You could definitely get some work in movies/tv/docs/ads with those sorts of tracks.

Thanks.

Funny you mention movies. Much of this is an initial cut of some ideas I have for a CD which will have text, graphics and short backgroud musical tracks. I seem to be able to compose this stuff and I really like doing it. Hopefully I can be a little more effecient at composiing and not get to sidetracked with gearlust.

Bryan T · Post by **Bryan T** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:34 pm

Lux_Seeker wrote:Hopefully I can be a little more effecient at composiing and not get to sidetracked with gearlust.

It can be a tough balance. I always find that having work to do keeps the gearlust at bay, though it does sometimes lead me to acquire new equipment to realize a piece of music.

On the flip-side, there's nothing like a new piece of gear to inspire new music. Relying on gear for new music is a bad path to go down.

Bryan

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:42 pm

Bryan T wrote:
Lux_Seeker wrote:Hopefully I can be a little more effecient at composiing and not get to sidetracked with gearlust.
It can be a tough balance. I always find that having work to do keeps the gearlust at bay, though it does sometimes lead me to acquire new equipment to realize a piece of music.

On the flip-side, there's nothing like a new piece of gear to inspire new music. Relying on gear for new music is a bad path to go down.

Bryan

I agree completely.

Just Me · Post by **Just Me** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:26 pm

I'm a gear freak. I just picked up 6 more expression pedals and an FC-200 midi foot controller today. I'm working on a 44 space modular.
As I get old junk sold, given away or trashed, I'm getting to the room that will be my dedicated studio. This is purely for my own amusement. I've got an 8 track Akai and 2 Otari MX-5050 half tracks to record to.
I haven't a clue how to get my music into or out of a computer. The closet thing to a computer in my studio is the VGA monitor for my DR-8. I doubt that any of it will ever end up on Youtube or some other site.
I have recorded some "real" musicians and every now and then we will jam and record. For the most part it is an hour or 2 a day for my own sanity.
I did do a couple albums way back in the mid '80's. But that was just bass, no keyboard stuff.
To each, their own. Now if a 'real' musician wants to use my stuff to record, that's cool. I have rented some of my dinosaurs out in the past. (And just let some guys that really appreciated them use them.)

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:20 pm

I personally can't wait to acquire more gear. A Little Phatty/'Fooger semi-modular is very limited. Granted, I still haven't created all the effects, sounds, and patches possible with a 102, 103, CP-251 and Phatty, but let's face it. That's not a lot to work with. There's some other gear I want to modify/restore that will help me when I get a house with a dedicated studio, but it's not nearly as flexible as, say, a 22 space .com modular and sequencers. There's only so much you can do with a Farfisa organ, Little Phatty rig, and Yamaha DD-50. And only so much you can play at one time.

With a modular, you can put the MIDI keyboard on the organ, and play both keyboard and organ with one hand and the Phatty with the other, while playing the Taurus with one's feet. This opens lots of doors, and makes the sound so much better. I have many samples of my limited playing abilities online, but none of it really sounds too impressive. If I could add sequences, drums, organ, and another synth or two, I'd be set. Everything I record is done with one take, BTW. I'm more of a sound maker. My art is in the patches themselves, and I do it for myself. I love making unique sounds. I share them when I can, so that people don't confuse me for a forum lurker.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:02 am

Just Me wrote:I'm a gear freak. I just picked up 6 more expression pedals and an FC-200 midi foot controller today. I'm working on a 44 space modular.
As I get old junk sold, given away or trashed, I'm getting to the room that will be my dedicated studio. This is purely for my own amusement. I've got an 8 track Akai and 2 Otari MX-5050 half tracks to record to.
I haven't a clue how to get my music into or out of a computer. The closet thing to a computer in my studio is the VGA monitor for my DR-8. I doubt that any of it will ever end up on Youtube or some other site.
I have recorded some "real" musicians and every now and then we will jam and record. For the most part it is an hour or 2 a day for my own sanity.
I did do a couple albums way back in the mid '80's. But that was just bass, no keyboard stuff.
To each, their own. Now if a 'real' musician wants to use my stuff to record, that's cool. I have rented some of my dinosaurs out in the past. (And just let some guys that really appreciated them use them.)

I'm not really sure what "real" musicans are. I certainly have played live music and used to regularly play jazz with a group. We never really performed in public but it was more for fun and diversion. We mostly played jazz standards. Basic straight ahead jazz.

These days I am more composer but part of that is performance in a sense just not with a band. I think lines are pretty blurred these days so defining "real" musicans might be a harder task then you think. I never really believed in placing hard and fast lines around things when it comes to artistic things.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:10 am

Voltor07 wrote:I personally can't wait to acquire more gear. A Little Phatty/'Fooger semi-modular is very limited. Granted, I still haven't created all the effects, sounds, and patches possible with a 102, 103, CP-251 and Phatty, but let's face it. That's not a lot to work with. There's some other gear I want to modify/restore that will help me when I get a house with a dedicated studio, but it's not nearly as flexible as, say, a 22 space .com modular and sequencers. There's only so much you can do with a Farfisa organ, Little Phatty rig, and Yamaha DD-50. And only so much you can play at one time.

With a modular, you can put the MIDI keyboard on the organ, and play both keyboard and organ with one hand and the Phatty with the other, while playing the Taurus with one's feet. This opens lots of doors, and makes the sound so much better. I have many samples of my limited playing abilities online, but none of it really sounds too impressive. If I could add sequences, drums, organ, and another synth or two, I'd be set. Everything I record is done with one take, BTW. I'm more of a sound maker. My art is in the patches themselves, and I do it for myself. I love making unique sounds. I share them when I can, so that people don't confuse me for a forum lurker.

Making sound is every bit as much of an art as music. I have both sound design and performance aspects of my work with the final recording in mind.

You might want to add a Motiff or M3 to your rig. I don't know if you want to go with only analogue but a solid workstation can round anything out and provide drums, sequences, organ and other synths. My M3 has alll of those. Lot's of drum kits and KARMA which it's designer Stephen Kay calls a sequencer on steriods but that is really a modest statement. KARMA is in a separate class because it responds to what you play. If you want effects, the M3 has a huge collection fo them.

Don't get mre wrong, I love analogue gear and one of these days will have a modular but don't rule out the digital world because it to has a lot to offer.

This is interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wf34ljSSRA

My M3 has a radius analogue emulator in it but to be honest, I would much rather use a Voyager. I don't have one, but analogue is a different sound and Moog instruments have a great sound as I believe Korg's do. They are just different. Anlogue and digital can be conbined in many ways and with MIDI, it makes it even easier. I love the fact that the Voyager is totally analogue but has MIDI control.

For now I will work with what I have which is enough. The four peices of gear I would love to have are:

1. A Moog Voyager
2. A Moog Theremin
3. A modular synth (probably mostly eurorack stuff)
4. A Macbook pro to transfer all my soft synths to and then use them with the hardware synths.

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:33 pm

Lux, I'd like to stay MOSTLY analog. The reason I say "mostly" is because I'm not sure if I could find a Fender Rhodes in my area or on E-Bay with reasonable shipping. I found one a week ago, but there's no place for it right now, and the storage shed I rent is already full. And I'm not paying for a larger one.

Actually, I was thinking along the lines of a Yamaha Motif for my rig. The sounds on that thing are insane! Especially the piano sounds. Piano sounds are lacking in my rig right now. Piano skills are also sadly lacking right now. But it's the SOUND I'm after.

I'll also probably get a theremin sooner or later. DIY kit with Plus upgrade.

Lux_Seeker · Post by **Lux_Seeker** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:59 am

Dont' rule out Korg. The OASYS is an amazing instrument and for a long while, I even considered trying to get enough money to buy one but then came to my senses. It has the most powerful physical modelling I have ever seen (far exceeding anything on the soft synth side), a form of FM synthesis, a full draw bar organ emulation, analogue synth emulation and great samples for subtractive synthesis and KARMA. Of course, it costs about $8K and eventually I came to my senses and bought an M3.

The expanded M3 does have new piano and organ samples, a great keyboard, the option of a Radius synth (analogue emulator) built inside and totally integrated with the M3 software (including the sequencer). it also has KARMA which inventor Stephen Kay calls a sequencer on steriods but that is a really really modest statementl. KARMA reacts to what you play and can be programmed on a computer at a lower level so you can create your own GE (generated effects) as they are called.

Not to mention a killer set of effects. This thing in iteself is a great digital effects processor. And it has a full range of controllers including the touch pad which doubles as a Kaos like XY controller which will even record and playback your finger motions.

The OASYS also has a vododer.

Bottom line, and not to promote a brand here, a solid competitor to the Motiff.

I would love to have a Voyager sitting on top of mine and perhaps one day I will but if you want great sounds and KARMA, its a great synth.

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:36 pm

Lux_Seeker wrote:Dont' rule out Korg. The OASYS is an amazing instrument and for a long while, I even considered trying to get enough money to buy one but then came to my senses. It has the most powerful physical modelling I have ever seen (far exceeding anything on the soft synth side), a form of FM synthesis, a full draw bar organ emulation, analogue synth emulation and great samples for subtractive synthesis and KARMA. Of course, it costs about $8K and eventually I came to my senses and bought an M3.

The expanded M3 does have new piano and organ samples, a great keyboard, the option of a Radius synth (analogue emulator) built inside and totally integrated with the M3 software (including the sequencer). it also has KARMA which inventor Stephen Kay calls a sequencer on steriods but that is a really really modest statementl. KARMA reacts to what you play and can be programmed on a computer at a lower level so you can create your own GE (generated effects) as they are called.

Not to mention a killer set of effects. This thing in iteself is a great digital effects processor. And it has a full range of controllers including the touch pad which doubles as a Kaos like XY controller which will even record and playback your finger motions.

The OASYS also has a vododer.

Bottom line, and not to promote a brand here, a solid competitor to the Motiff.

I would love to have a Voyager sitting on top of mine and perhaps one day I will but if you want great sounds and KARMA, its a great synth.

Motif=$3200, OASYS=$8000...let me get back to you on that. Ok, no OASYS for me. I'll stick with the Motif and buy a Paia vocoder kit.

Alienation · Post by **Alienation** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:15 pm

HUGE UPDATE ON MY DECISION!!!!

I NOW OWN ALL THE FOOGERS WITH THE VX-351 AND CP-251 AND.......................A MOOG OLD SCHOOL!!!

2 Voyagers r better than 1!!!