Sub Phatty beta firmware - final bug roundup

[grailtone]

Sorry! Been on the road...I'll hit it up and let you guys know what I find from this end!

Thanks for all the hard work, Amos!

[Amos]

Thanks for all your hard work Amos. Cannot wait for the editor.

If you change the oscillator 2 beat frequency to something not center on the active panel, then switch to a preset, then switch back to active panel, the oscillator 2 frequency is where the oscillator 2 beat frequency knob was positioned.

This probably isn't a bug, because the active panel is working as it should. But it might be nice if I don't have to remember to reset the oscillator frequency after changing the oscillator 2 beat frequency.

Hope that makes sense.

Hmm. You're right, it's not a bug, it's a logical consequence of the way things work; you've moved a knob and then you've requested "the real panel settings," including the knob in question. The confusion is because you moved the knob while it was controlling a different parameter (beat freq, in shift mode), so it doesn't seem exactly right...

Is there a way around it? The easiest I can think of is just to re-center the freq knob after you've dialed in a beat frequency and exited shift mode. I'm open to clever suggestions, as usual

[cookiemonsta]

Wasn't trying to be clever. Just don't always have the where with all to move the knobs back in a live situation.

Have played the synth for awhile with new firmware, no bugs yet.

[Amos]

Wasn't trying to be clever. Just don't always have the where with all to move the knobs back in a live situation.

I totally understand -- I wasn't being flippant, either -- if anyone can suggest a change which would help this particular use case, I'll be glad to implement it.

Meanwhile, I've posted a new firmware version... there are two changes of note in v1.2.3:

1) Octave up/down works (via MIDI) when Local Control is turned off
2) There is a change in the way Relative knob mode works, which needs testing please.

See repost from other thread below:

Hi.
I'm using ableton live ... I created an External Instrument track in live for the Sub Phatty.
With monitor set to Auto (which the default value and what I need) the SP behaves strangely.
Let's say I set just osc1 to let say 10 (sub osc, osc2 and noise to 0). If I play some midi notes on the sub phatty and set back osc1 to 0. Then I can still here a sound from the SP when I play a note. I can hear no sound after bringing osc1 back to some value and back to 0 several times.

OK! Here's a new version. I made some changes to Relative mode, it seems to avoid this problem for me now.

download here:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... _1_2_3.syx

remember that (for now) Local Control is ON every time you power on the Sub Phatty, and must be turned off each time, if your setup loops MIDI through a DAW like Ableton Live (or any other DAW).

I thought this was a good idea at the time... since if you don't know about Local Control and it's off, it can seem like your synth is broken... but now, I'm thinking it's better for Local Control to be persistent. I'll change this soon.

Anyway, be sure Local Control is off and Knob Mode is Relative, and tell me if this problem is fixed or if it persists.

* I just want to emphasize also, if you're sending MIDI out from a synth to a DAW, and sending that same MIDI back from the DAW to the synth in real time (like in this example with Live, above) you really must work with Local Control turned off; otherwise the synth gets two copies of every MIDI message (one local, one echoed from the DAW) and invalid things happen, especially in Relative mode.

Thanks!

Amos

[ul303]

Hi,

V 1.2.3 seems to solve the issue with local off engaged.
I have the Sub Phatty connected via usb midi and a fatar keyboard connected to the midi in of my audio card interface.

Just one question: When I play from the fatar keyboard with midi in set to the "fatar midi in" only turning any knob on the Sub Pahtty has no impact on the sound. Is it normal? Is local off affecting knobs too?

With local on engaged + Knob in relative mode
I have the problem when I play from the sub phatty keyboard with midi in of the ableton track set either to "sub phatty" or "all ins"
I works only when i set the midi in of the ableton track to "fatar in" only.
=> this option is not ideal because I can not record the automation of the Sub Phatty!

With local on engaged + Knob in snap mode
everything works

I understand your point about local on not being ideal but in a ideal world I would prefer to be able to play from the Sub Phatty keyboard when I am not connected to a my DAW. But I noticed sometimes like "midi glitches" that may be due to being in local on mode (Sub Phatty receiving information twice).

However as it works fine in Snap mode I think there is still a bug as it should work in Relative mode too.

Hope that helps.

[ul303]

To be fair after posting my previous reply I switched to local off and relative mode and had the problem again!
So I would say that at least under my setup relative mode is buggy (looks like if you turn a osc knob all way down to 0 it does not go to 0 the first time).
Now I guess the question is am I the only one, i.e is it due to the Sub Phatty or maybe ableton?
I have to admit it becomes a bit complicated for me

[Amos]

Just one question: When I play from the fatar keyboard with midi in set to the "fatar midi in" only turning any knob on the Sub Pahtty has no impact on the sound. Is it normal? Is local off affecting knobs too?

local off means "all controls only send MIDI and don't affect the sound engine directly" - keys, wheels, and knobs.

Set midi in to "all ins" on the sub phatty midi track, and that way you should get both the fatar keys and the sub phatty knobs on that track.

[madeinfoam]

Hi,

I have encountered a few bugs, mostly with Osc2 Frequency, EG Amount and from time to time Filter envelope knobs as well as other knobs.
When I turn any of those knobs too fast, its like the firmware doesn't "catch up" with my actions and the knob value doesn't correspond to the firmware value;

For instance if i turn the frequency knob too fast from say 0 to 7, maybe the value will stop at 3 instead.
Same goes for EG Amount, if I turn the knob too fast clockwise maybe it'll bug out and go to negative EG amounts.

Changing Knob Mode doesn't fix this but reverting back to SubPhatty_v147_1_0_4.syx seems to fix it.

Also, the Sustain Filter Envelope knob output doesn't seem reflected in the Editor Software, I turn it on the Sub and nothing happens in the Editor.

Thanks!

[grailtone]

Hello!

Got 1.2.3 loaded up, and it has fixed almost all of the issues that I had before.

Couple things:

If I enable local control at any time while connected to the interface, Osc 2 has to be tuned down quite a bit to be in tune with Osc 1 and Sub Osc. This can be fixed by turning local off again and turning the oscillator volumes all the way down. Slowly, they all migrate back to being in tune at Zero.

Regardless of glide settings, I cannot get the keyboard to behave the same way as when it is controlled locally. I really like to be able to move the tone up and down by pressing higher notes and holding a lower one. So the tone bounces around a bit. With local OFF I have to very persistently re-key to get the glide to trigger again. I should mention Legato Glide is ON. This is the reason I found out about the Osc 2 tuning issue. A/B'ing Local On and Off. I don't know if this is a DAW issue, but, it's pretty confusing. Seems that the glide starts to behave the way I'd like, and then it drops off and I have to let the Amp EG finish it's cycle in order to start another glided phrase.

Anybody else?

I'll post audio if that is too difficult to understand...Hard to word it.

-will

[grailtone]

Also discovered that using the Sub Phatty as a controller for software instruments causes issues when using the Octave +/- buttons. When the softsynth channel is enabled, everything works fine, but, in order to switch octaves on the keyboard, (Activate panel on) Press octave up, then Activate Panel twice, then it will bump up one octave, but, I can't jump two no matter what without lots of button pushing.

*EDIT*

In ableton, if I set up a seperate midi track, sub phatty feeding the midi track, with midi returning to both the sub phatty and the plugin, the octave buttons function properly.

[Amos]

If I enable local control at any time while connected to the interface, Osc 2 has to be tuned down quite a bit to be in tune with Osc 1 and Sub Osc. This can be fixed by turning local off again and turning the oscillator volumes all the way down. Slowly, they all migrate back to being in tune at Zero.
[...]I'll post audio if that is too difficult to understand...Hard to word it.

Hi and thanks for the feedback! We're definitely making progress.

I think I understand exactly what you mean about Legato Glide (local on vs. off) and about the octave up/down buttons. I'm working on these items now.

The only thing I'm not clear on is the bit I quoted above... I can't quite tell if you are talking about osc2 frequency or volume. Or are they interacting somehow? In theory, frequency ("in tune" refers to frequency in my world) and volume of a signal are completely independent... so when you talk about the oscillators being "in tune" or not, and then refer to volume adjustment, I get a bit lost.

If you can clarify exactly what's going on (what needs adjusting, and what knobs you are turning to make the adjustment) and/or provide an example, that would help. Thanks!

[grailtone]

I was referring to Osc 2 Tuning. It goes about 4 steps out of tune one way or the other. If I reboot and turn Local back off, it slowly migrates back to correct tuning. Though, as long as I don't turn Local back on, I won't experience the issue.

Thanks again!

-w

Oooh, also, with Local Off, I have to have the Midi Track(that supplies the note information) Armed in order to use any knobs on the panel. Otherwise they don't do anything. Is this a normal behavior for the Sub Phatty?

[Amos]

with Local Off, I have to have the Midi Track(that supplies the note information) Armed in order to use any knobs on the panel. Otherwise they don't do anything. Is this a normal behavior for the Sub Phatty?

Yes that's totally normal, it's what Local Off does. It's a way to resolve the conflict that would otherwise occur when the Midi Track is Armed and you're turning a panel knob... you want the knob to send MIDI so you can record the automation... you want the track to send MIDI to the synth because that's it's entire reason for being... given that both those things are happening, you DON'T want the knob to affect the sound engine directly, because that would duplicate what the MIDI is already doing.

However, on a musical instrument the controls and the sound engine can be pretty tightly coupled to one another, to create an intuitive and musical playing experience. Therefore it can be very tricky to implement a Local Off mode that de-couples the controls and the sound engine, while providing exactly the same playing experience as you get with Local On. Each time I try it, I learn a few things.

[DBM]

In the next update . A global setting for ignore preset volume ( all not per patch ) would be greatly appreciated

[ovostick]

Sorry completely off topic but. when do you think you guys are gonna ship the sub phatty?