Moog Music Forum

Cool, thanks for the change : )

Hi Amos,

Sorry for the long read but I have just did a further testing with this firmware, I still find it very weird.

Problem 1)
With Local Control off, when I switch to "Panel Activate" from a preset, every parameters from the preset are carried over to the "Panel Activate" mode. Which makes "Panel Activate" mode useless.
If Local Control is on, no such problem.

The only work around right now is, turn Local Control On, make it reads the current knobs positions, then turn it off again.
However, I have noticed a lot of wacky behaviours in Ableton using Local Control off mode(especially with automation when there are multiple clips in a single track.) Right now, It is not an ideal mode to use with DAW at the moment.

Problem 2)
Here is a video that I happened to record when I just got my Sub Phatty. Local Control On, playing from a midi clip, tweaked knobs with no wacky behaviours at all. Perfect perfect synth, perfect workflow for DAW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o231ul9jX5g

Here is a video of my Sub Phatty after firmware v1.1.0, Local Control On. Clean midi track, I held a key on my Sub Phatty, tweaked the knobs. like a sick cat..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uvri1y1x1k
(so far, those wacky behaviours only happens to Cutoff & EG amount, all other knobs sounded smooth. However, more to be confirmed when I have more time to test it out.)

Problem 3) (extension to problem 2)

Basically, when Live (or any DAW) is set up this way, it "echoes" the MIDI it receives from the synth, back out to the same synth. If Local Control is turned on, this creates a problem, because the synth is responding directly to your knob-turnings, and then it's also getting MIDI echoed back from from the DAW which represents the same knob-turning action, only slightly later in time. This creates a glitchy sound as the two sets of instructions (Local and MIDI) fight with each other.

This theory is absolutely correct. However, with the stock firmware, it will only make glitchy sounds if I 1) already have automation done in Ableton & 2) tweak the knobs on Sub Phatty of the same parameter that I have automation done in Ableton, because they are fighting against each other.

With the new firmware, it makes glitchy sounds even in a clean midi track. Definitely something wrong here...

A little wishful request:
In the mean time, Is it possible to post stock firmware online so I can switch it back to the stock firmware before v1.1.0 is ready? I want my Phatty back to normal so I can work with DAW

Anyways, thanks for all the hard works!

tungchihyu wrote:Hi Amos,
[...]
Problem 1)
With Local Control off, when I switch to "Panel Activate" from a preset, every parameters from the preset are carried over to the "Panel Activate" mode. Which makes "Panel Activate" mode useless.
If Local Control is on, no such problem.

This is a bug! Thank you for catching it; I will fix.
As for the remaining problems, I see now how to fix them. I will have a new update for you soon, which should be much better.

Until then, try this v1.0.4 version... it has no "sick cat" sounds...

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/ph ... _1_0_4.syx

thank you very much for the testing and feedback!

Until then, try this v1.0.4 version... it has no "sick cat" sounds...

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/ph ... _1_0_4.syx

thank you very much for the testing and feedback!

Thanks Amos. I have just updated to v1.0.4, seems like fine now. I will keep testing it.

I am experiencing a rather odd issue with the release firmware. Using the low C key for turning Local Control 'off' is not actually turning it off. I've tested this with MIDI connected and not and the sound engine of the Sub Phatty is still being triggered despite having turned 'off' Local Control.

Has anyone else experienced this? I did find it odd that the low C key triggers Local Control 'off' rather than 'on' - thinking perhaps this error in the updated manual, but I tried low C# key as well and to no avail.

mico wrote:I am experiencing a rather odd issue with the release firmware. Using the low C key for turning Local Control 'off' is not actually turning it off. I've tested this with MIDI connected and not and the sound engine of the Sub Phatty is still being triggered despite having turned 'off' Local Control.

Has anyone else experienced this? I did find it odd that the low C key triggers Local Control 'off' rather than 'on' - thinking perhaps this error in the updated manual, but I tried low C# key as well and to no avail.

C turns off LC, C# turns on for me.

tungchihyu wrote:C turns off LC, C# turns on for me.

I just tried it by removing the DIN cables from both the MIDI In and Out of the Sub Phatty and Local Control is indeed off. I think what I'm dealing with is a MIDI echo from my iConnect MIDI interface feeding back into the MIDI In of my Sub Phatty. This is relieving, albeit still a frustrating matter. I will tinker with MIDI Merge and see if I can absolve this issue.

There is also something odd happening on initial start-up with the Sub Phatty. The volume is peaking hot until I adjust the knob even the slightest and then there is a huge drop in volume. I checked the Preset Volume hidden parameter in Shift mode and regardless of whether I've set it to 'on' or 'off', this issue still arises.

Is it possible that when I was trying to control the Sub Phatty's Pitch and Gate In with the Arturia Minibrute's CV Outs that I may've damaged my beautiful Sub Phatty due to the voltage difference?

mico wrote:There is also something odd happening on initial start-up with the Sub Phatty. The volume is peaking hot until I adjust the knob even the slightest and then there is a huge drop in volume. I checked the Preset Volume hidden parameter in Shift mode and regardless of whether I've set it to 'on' or 'off', this issue still arises.

This sounds like a simple start-up bug; I am looking at it right now. Please try the v1.1.1 firmware update as soon as I post it, and let me know if you have the same volume issue on start-up or not.

mico wrote:Is it possible that when I was trying to control the Sub Phatty's Pitch and Gate In with the Arturia Minibrute's CV Outs that I may've damaged my beautiful Sub Phatty due to the voltage difference?

No, don't worry! There is no risk to the hardware from that setup.

Amos wrote:This sounds like a simple start-up bug; I am looking at it right now. Please try the v1.1.1 firmware update as soon as I post it, and let me know if you have the same volume issue on start-up or not.

Oh, I most certainly will. Looking forward to the adjustments! I do hope you'll give some thought to integrating an arpeggiator into the Sub Phatty. A marvelous addition, that would be.

Amos wrote:No, don't worry! There is no risk to the hardware from that setup.

I thought as much. Though a paranoid mind tends to wander. Hahaha.

OK, here is Sub Phatty firmware version 1.1.1:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/ph ... _1_1_1.syx

This version fixes the loud volume on startup (it is now the preset volume, or the real volume knob position, depending on the "use preset volume" global setting)...

Also fixed two "Activate Panel" issues: first it works in Local Off mode, second it always gets the real Mod Wheel position.

Lastly, Cutoff filtering is better now, with no glitches in Ableton (I still recommend Local Off mode for times when you are recording/monitoring MIDI at the same time... if any other Local Off bugs please let me know so I can fix them).

Cheers,

Amos

Amos wrote:OK, here is Sub Phatty firmware version 1.1.1:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/ph ... _1_1_1.syx

This version fixes the loud volume on startup (it is now the preset volume, or the real volume knob position, depending on the "use preset volume" global setting)...

Also fixed two "Activate Panel" issues: first it works in Local Off mode, second it always gets the real Mod Wheel position.

Lastly, Cutoff filtering is better now, with no glitches in Ableton (I still recommend Local Off mode for times when you are recording/monitoring MIDI at the same time... if any other Local Off bugs please let me know so I can fix them).

Cheers,

Amos

Excellent! Is the current patch memory at risk with the firmware update?

mico wrote:Is the current patch memory at risk with the firmware update?

Nope, no risk to patch memory.
You can always export your presets as sysex before you do the update, just for the extra sense of security that a backup provides.

Amos wrote:Nope, no risk to patch memory.
You can always export your presets as sysex before you do the update, just for the extra sense of security that a backup provides.

Hahaha, thanks for that. It has been a while since I last updated firmware with Moog, I believe since the last major firmware update with the LP that introduced LFO retriggering. I'm not finding anywhere in the physical or online manual instructions as to how to perform the update with the Sub Phatty. I also used the 'search' function within the forums and nothing shows up that even reminds me of how I did it with the LP.

My apologies for the shoddy memory, mate, but could you refresh me or inform me how it is done on the Sub Phatty, if it is at all different?

Thanks in advance.

To update firmware on the Sub Phatty:

1) press and hold the PITCH MOD and HARD SYNC buttons on the front panel, and while holding them down, press the ACTIVATE PANEL button twice in a row (2x). You should see the MIDI LED blink on and off three times, and then the LFO LED will begin blinking steadily on and off.

2) The Sub Phatty is now ready to receive the new firmware. Connect MIDI (USB or DIN MIDI) from your computer to the Sub Phatty, and send the new firmware sysex file. The Sub Phatty will boot to the new OS and will be ready to use as soon as the firmware update is complete.

If you don't already have a favorite sysex-sending utility, I might recommend the new C6 sysex utility from Elektron:

Mac version: http://www.elektron.se/sites/default/fi ... _v1.4E.dmg
Windows version: http://www.elektron.se/sites/default/fi ... _v1.4F.zip

Unzip/install, select the Sub Phatty as your Midi output device in C6, open the new firmware sysex file, and send.

Amos wrote:The Sub Phatty will boot to the new OS and will be ready to use as soon as the firmware update is complete.

Thanks for the instructions. I have C6 of which I use for my Octatrack.

When the update is done, should the 'Activate Panel', 'Pitch Amount', 'Hard Sync', 'MIDI' and 'LFO rate' stop blinking? I'm asking because I sent it over via C6 through MIDI DIN In and they are all still blinking. If they are supposed to be doing so, how do I go about exiting out? Tap the 'Activate Panel' momentary button again?