Moog Music Forum

Just got back from the 'Mostly Modular Trade Association' synth meetup in Seattle. Moog sent a rep out, a nice guy named Steve who's been with the company for about 3 years. I asked him about a lot of the questions that come up on this forum, like 'When are you guys coming out with a Polymoog?', or 'How about a Vocoder Moogerfooger?'. And then the question of bringing out moogerfooger modules, like what this thread is all about.

The short answer was, 'If it happens at all, it won't be anytime soon'. The engineers at Moog are working on a number of things, though the SubPhatty has taken up the majority of their time for the past year. Some things like the Lev96 may or may not ever make it to market.

Anyway, I had a blast today, it was great meeting so many synth-heads and manufacturers. John Bowen was there with his Solaris, Mark Vail, the author of 'Vintage Synthesizers' too.

Stephen




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Very interesting. I will be following this thread closely. That's not to expensive but I would like someone else to be the guinea pig lol

On most modulars, they have multiple summed inputs for CVs so one can plug more than one CV in at a time.
Is there any accommodation for this on the racked MF's?
Or just one in and one out for most modules?
Adding mults would be obvious, but unless more inputs are added to modules, adding some mixers might also.

ColorForm2113 wrote:Very interesting. I will be following this thread closely. That's not to expensive but I would like someone else to be the guinea pig lol

Same.

That's an excellent point.

I think if you look at the MOTM modules, you'll see that Paul built in x number of additional inputs where x = however much panel room he had for additional jacks and [in some cases], pots.

In the case of MoogerFoogers, I think we're going to find that there just isn't room for much of anything. The board does not quite fit between the bend edges of a standard MU panel and some of the boards are full length, height wise. Most people are going to want the layout such that it is familiar if not identical to the original so that the board can be parallel mounted to the panel.

Circuit-wise it should be easy to add a 2nd passive (resistor in line) input or even a rudimentary mixer which can be calibrated to unity gain. (I've used this on a few occasions already: http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs04_mix.html

EMwhite wrote:I've used this on a few occasions already: http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs04_mix.html

That's a common mixer design.
One can even use a resistor array for those 100Ks and arrays usually have very closely matched resistors.
Including that last 1K in the feedback loop I'm not so sure about tho, but I'm not an engineer.

But yeah, this is what's always struck me as weird when I hear someone suggesting "build a modular" using MFs.
They seem more like effects chains with some additional CV control, not true synth modules.
Real modulars don't usually have modules with only one jack for each CV and there are mixers and mults to help out.
I've always appreciated modules that had more than one output jack too.

I haven't heard from Rob since I confirmed the 102 order, but I imagine that once he gets a design going he will contact me, so stay tuned and I will update when I get more information.

Kevin Lightner wrote: But yeah, this is what's always struck me as weird when I hear someone suggesting "build a modular" using MFs.
They seem more like effects chains with some additional CV control, not true synth modules.
Real modulars don't usually have modules with only one jack for each CV and there are mixers and mults to help out.
I've always appreciated modules that had more than one output jack too.

Most (but not all) of the module makers today opt for minimizing footprint over providing mixing and multiple outs. OSCs will often have two inputs, one for Pitch CV and the other for Pitch Bend CV but they may as well be simple, passive resistor bound 2-jack mixers. Filters, on the other hand, might have a 1V/Oct input plus one additional for modulation, usually treated differently.

I think Paul S. (Synthesis Technologies and father of MOTM format) is unique in the way that he went about it with the 'grid' but many people think it anal retentive aesthetics over function or workflow; just look at some of the Bridechamber panels like the Mankato filter http://www.bridechamber.com/Mankato.html vs. the STG design http://pics.livejournal.com/suitandtieg ... 0b6fde.jpg

One of the biggest bummers about MFs for use inside of (and in place of) modules is that while Foogers are rich with CV control and functionality (oftentimes more-so than their modular counterparts), the [typically] two sides of the pedal cannot operate independently without leaving the rest of the pedal dormant and useless.

An example of this is that you cannot use the Envelope follower circuit of the FreqBox separately from the OSCillator and when together, you cannot generate an audio to CV frequency (ENV. Amount serves double duty). The Freqbox is glitchy depending on what type of signal you are feeding it, but for synths that have the ability to output a clean wave, FreqBox tracks very well. It would have been handy to play a non-CV enabled keyboard with a basic wave into the FreqBox and have it output pitch CV.

Another is that neither the 104M or 108M offer LFO out; so "effects chain" is the operative word. But I suppose pedal board was the targeted use case. Would have been great if most had a simple switch to connect the left and right brains.

Speaking for myself, I would just like to get my Foogers out of that space wasting rack and powered and somewhat integrated into my modular cabinet. The delay is the only pedal that I'll keep as pedal because I like having it off to the right of my VOS. But for me the list includes:

MF-101 - I've got 4 low pass filters and none of them have a 2-pole plus the envelope follower works very well
MF-105M - not a great fit for modular but certainly will be handy to have it towards the right side of my setup so that I can push patches through it; I don't use that pedal enough and the bandpass and animation is very unique.
MF- 102 - belongs in the modular, it's an extra LFO also; this will be my first one I think...

Friends,

Okay so I have heard from the panel designer and seen a rough draft of the 102 panel. I'm going to wait before I publish it online because it is his work but the design is very nice looking, very close to what the real thing looks like minus the logos and a slightly different font.

I have a question that I want to pose to those of you who have expressed an interest in this project:

What do you propose to be done about the bypass switch? In this version it is a jack. Would all of you want to see the original bypass switch stay the same, or a jack, or would you want to install your own toggle switch?

He has asked me for suggestions and I know you guys want to see the panel, but I want to get his permission before I just go and post his designs. If you shoot me a pm I might forward the pdf to you.

So, what are your thoughts?


Eric

My opinion, don't bother with it. On a pedal board, some of the foogers have drive that effects the signal even when disengaged, some not. Some people presumably leverage the drive to 'overdrive' the audio for some breakup/fuzz. I never bothered with it.

They all have Mix knobs and CV so that should do, if you don't want to use the pedal in a 'patch', just pull that patch chords. It's a luxury we have, guitar players... nope. My opinion is that the silver button would look hokey.

If it's a jack : ) on the other hand, then if Voltage is high then it's engaged? Or if voltage is low; well that's going to required additional circuitry and who is going to be up for that? Not sure if they are sending 5V through the button, not sure what happens if somebody send 15 (by multing 3x5 on accident? Tough one.

On the other hand, there are odd number of jacks on the 101 and 102 so the addition of the Bypass jack makes perfect sense. I do think that the silver button would look silly there. If I'm not mistaken, it's a latch circuit, so maybe a synth.com red button would be appropriate and no jack? If you are savvy, you can always look to integrate something more fancy form the panel.

Last thought, getting ahead of myself now, what about Midi jacks? Front or back? I'm not a big fan of having Midi jacks on the front but then again, I'm not the usual Modular user because I always have things in a state flux. (by the way, I sold my clusterflux!!!)

I like the jack idea, but never considered the issues EM brought up. I think switch would be cool. Unfortunately not all mfs have mix knobs...103 does not, I always wish it did though. Also wish they all had out put level knobs too but this is not the thread for that lol

I also generally run mine engaged and use the mix knob when I need it. I have always thought about having a jack to engage the effect, like on a phaser for instance with no mix knob. I think I like a simple toggle switch, and it doesn't particularly matter to me if there are odd or even number of jacks. I might be seriously anal about my gear, but I'm not THAT OCD as to have to invent a jack for something.

I am also of the opinion that no engineering be necessary, this should just be a matter of moving the jacks to the front and adding wiring where necessary. I agree that the push button foot switches would look hokey on a modular. (My next grand idea will be purpose defeating: put the modular on the floor and convert all the modules to stompboxes.)

Anyone else have any ideas?

Cool ideas here, love seeing this develop. I at the moment don't have a use for it (pedal user) but I have a few ideas:

1) the bypass switch: you should be able to wire a very simple circuit to handle this that would be voltage controlled. Do some searching on some of the pedal DIY sites and you should quickly find a solution using an IC to switch the audio in and out - much like the moog pedals do already. You could even go so far as to use a simple switched 1/4" jack & a cord to nothing that shorts when pulled out... That will achieve the correct look at least.

2) mix / master: create a mixer, and make a panel for it. It's all just a matter of routing then. Mixers are fairly simple to assemble in a small space, incorporate it on the 5u phaser panel as an upgrade, then you don't need a whole mixer panel. You don't necessarily need it to CV control.

Point being that if you are already soldering some wires, just solder a few more!

Here is a quick update.

This is what Rob emailed me today

"To update you

I've finished the mf-101 & mf-102 and when I find a little time.
Appologies for such a long delay - I've so busy with designing other panels ...
I've had to proritise them first.
I'll next design the mf-103 - Who knows maybe this week... I have some system 700 modules
I have to finish first ... as for desining any other moogerfoogers
I would need the other modules to get the measurments.
or a high res scans of the dismantled front panels.
I do already have the dimensions and scans of the mf-104m delay
This would be a tricky module to rack panel ... but could be done by a skilled tech.
I talked to Ben at resynthesis about putting a page showing instructions on how to
mout the units onto the rack panels.
But this all will take some time as I find it...

All the best

Rob"

I have asked for mock-ups and for his permission to show them publicly.

Does anyone know if they can provide some other foogers that are disassembled?

Eric

Here are the mock-ups for the 101, 102, and 103. Rob says these aren't 100% and he is looking for comments, and suggestions.

To be able to make any more, he needs measurements from the foogers. Any EE on the forum interested in these modules willing to take some measurements and high res photos?







Eric