Moog Music Forum

To me, flanging seems like the inverse of phasing...I know they're very similar in concept & how they operate. Are they both delay based??

I use the Boss Phaser as well as the Moog Phaser and they are vastly different. The Moog is WAAAYYY more mellow and liquidy and less noisy. But the Boss is real aggressive sounding, the sweeps grind right through your headroom, and your bedroom (if thats where you play, like me.. ... I play a Rhodes through em & sometimes my bass. Also the Boss Phaser does some things that sound digital, but VERRY spacey and cosmic. I don't think there's a 'best' phaser out there, just different ones. After reading lots of great reviews, I tried Vermona's phaser & though it was wack; unresponsive, too soft, no umph!...I like some aggressiveness in a phaser but with the ability to tone it way down to a very soft, barely noticeable effect that just hints that its there.

NEvertheless, the moogerfoogers ARE really more long-term pedals, in my view, with regard to discovering their best uses for your music. It took me about 6 months before I started liking the ring mod, but once I liked it I loved it!!! I like the Moog phaser right now, but I don't LOVE it yet...its been 6 months since I've had it...

To me, flanging seems like the inverse of phasing...I know they're very similar in concept & how they operate. Are they both delay based??

Phasing and flanging are two similar sounding effects achieved by very different means.

Flanging is achieved by delaying a single by a very short period of time (milliseconds). This results in phase cancelations, ends up sounding sort of like a jet taking off.

Phasing is achieved by something called a comb filter, called so because the frequency response is shaped like a comb. This filter shape causes a lot of phase shifting in the signal. It is mixed with the original signal therefore causing phase cancellations. The response of the comb filter is swept by an oscillator.

I personally like phasing more. Not a fan of flangling, too harsh and annoying to my ears.

Personally, I'm a fan of old-school flanging, where they would sync two reels and then slow one down with their finger - at least I think that's how it worked! "Axis Bold As Love" from Jimi Hendrix's album of the same name comes to mind, though of course the effect tended to get overused...

EDIT: in fact, isn't that where the word "flanger" comes from - the fact that you put you finger on the flange of the tape reel to slow it down?

hieronymous

Yes indeed! "Flanger" comes from the effect of the finger on the flange of the tape reel. I believe it was first used by a ska artist but i may be wrong.

Re: ZAPPA, I don't actually think the two songs listed-- "Pink Napkins" and "Ship Ahoy" use the same effect, do they? I'm operating from memory here, but I recall "Ship" has the sample and hold thing happening, and "Pink" is this relaly thick, phased sound that alters in accordance with FZ's picking... which is what led me to the EH PolyPhase, an envelope-controlled phaser pedal.

There are a couple of great pedal effects that nail the sample-and-hold sound on "Ship Ahoy" -- the Robotalk and Z. Vex's Ooh Wah II. But the "Pink Napkins" tone is more elusive, to my ears...

I own both a Mooger Phase, and a Prophecy Sound Systems Infinitphase MK1 Custom Analog Electronics.
Both sound very good, but different. The Infinitphase is the only other phaser made that can in some cases exceed the Moog. (to my ears)

endo23 wrote:Re: ZAPPA, I don't actually think the two songs listed-- "Pink Napkins" and "Ship Ahoy" use the same effect, do they? I'm operating from memory here, but I recall "Ship" has the sample and hold thing happening, and "Pink" is this really thick, phased sound that alters in accordance with FZ's picking... which is what led me to the EH PolyPhase, an envelope-controlled phaser pedal.

There are a couple of great pedal effects that nail the sample-and-hold sound on "Ship Ahoy" -- the Robotalk and Z. Vex's Ooh Wah II. But the "Pink Napkins" tone is more elusive, to my ears...

endo23 - you are right, they are different - I was thinking of "Black Napkins" from Zoot Allures, which sounds to me like the same effect as that on "Ship Ahoy" (from Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar Some More) - shoulda whipped out the discs before putting my foot in my mouth! Kinda nice though, it's got me listening closely...

I've got a phaser called a "Parallel Phase" by a Japanese company called Blue Lagoon - it's a clone of the Mutron Biphase, and to me it sounds a lot more like the sound Zappa is getting on "Pink Napkins" than the Moogerfooger phaser though not as nice as either! I don't hear the envelope on "Pink Napkins" though - to me I just hear it being swept with an LFO. I wonder if it is a Biphase, because it sounds like it's in stereo. Another possibility is that one side of the Biphase (assuming that's what it is) is being swept with an LFO while the other is being controlled by an envelope follower...

Found a couple of cool articles - one is a review of the Shut Up 'n' Play... album(s), which mentions Mutron in the context of "Ship Ahoy" and just "phasing" for "Pink Napkins." However, this thread at zappa.com goes into much more detail - it quotes Guitar Player magazine as saying he used a Mutron phaser, and also an Oberheim VCF for "Black Napkins" (and probably "Ship Ahoy"?) - great thread, though it kind of falls apart at the end...

ADDED LATER:

In writing the above post, I went to the album Frank Zappa Plays the Music of Frank Zappa - the deluxe version has a "real" fuzzy moustache and goatee on the cover, released 1996 maybe? Anyway, I thought I would recommend it - when I first bought it, I was somewhat disappointed - three of the tracks ("Zoot Allures," "Black Napkins" and "Watermelon in Easter Hay") are the album versions. However, on listening to it for the first time in a while, I'm realizing that it might be worthwhile for Zappa fanatics, especially if you haven't listened to him in a while. It also has live versions of those three songs, plus a bonus blues from 1974. The live version of "Zoot Allures" from Tokyo, 1976, has "the sample and hold 'Ship Ahoy' tone towards the end of the solo" (which is "awesome" in Dweezil Zappa's own words). Also, the studio version of "Zoot Allures" sounds like a slightly different mix, and there is what sounds to me like a "central scrutinizer" outtake before the "Watermelon in Easter Hay."

And to try and keep this Moog related, here's a link to a Zappa-related thread in the Moog General Topics forum.