Moog Music Forum

Lux_Seeker wrote:Jon:

I appreciate the fact that you offer a counter argument. You are right, on this boards if you ask if you should buy a product everyone agrees. Of course, you would expect that people who own a Moog product like Moog or that matter any other product board. But a counter arguement is the best I could have hoped for so thanks for that.

That's true. People that own Moog products posting on a Moog forum will naturally recommend the Moog. I'd recommend it too normally. Though when I see someone mention experimental and out of the box I don't think Moog I think modular.

Lux_Seeker wrote:The FS1R looks incredible although difficult to program. I like FM. It was really the precursor to addive synthesis and kind of a happy suprize of Chowning who really happened apon it more than anything else but realized the potential as realized in the DX-7 and its children that now even extend into the software world (and a good one at that).

It's a really nice sounding synth. Probably the thickest sounding digital synth I've heard. Programming it (if you understand FM) isn't too bad. There's a free computer editor for it that runs on Mac OS and Windows.

Lux_Seeker wrote:Not a fan of additive synthesis.

I never got into additive. I had a Kawai K5000 for a while and hated it.

Lux_Seeker wrote:Just had an awsome thought. A double MURF with envelope and CV control for morph amount. This is actually the kind of thing that I would benefit from on a modular and I know that.

That sounds cool. The Murf is one of the only Foogers I'm interested in. Now that it has MIDI I may consider it...but only if you can program your own patterns. If it's just a tempo sync thing then not so much...

Lux_Seeker wrote:See, I can think in modular terms and as I said, I will at some point get one but I want to think more about what I can use it for. In the meantime, I can use a Voyager right out of the box just as you did.

Yes you can. As for the Voyager you'll probably be very happy with it. To be honest if I could afford it I'd buy a second one with a walnut cabinet. But I can't really justify that and it would be a little excessive on my part.

Voltor07 wrote:And, its a calculator to boot!

Yeah, I know...what were they thinking?

jon_kull wrote:I'll get caught up on posts in a bit. In the meantime in the spirit of getting the most out of the gear you own here's something I did quickly this morning using only an ancient Casio VL-1. This was the first 'synth' I ever owned and was a gift from a musician friend of my father's. I think I was 9 years old at the time.

http://recoilsun.bandcamp.com/track/something-soft

Jon:

This sounds great. Clearly an example where a simple sound works well although with some well placed effects for a bit of ambience.

Once again, thanks for all the advice here. I have been away forr last couple of days as I usually am without internet access, at least not on a computer and I find phones diffcult to use for this.

Jon,

I find it interesting that you have not gotten into additive synthesis although as you might guess from my comments, I consider that a good move. Kawai probably did it the best with their K5000. In general, additive synthesis is doomed for failure due to a little know mathematical problem that I will not get into here but has to do with windowing and what frequency and pitch really are.

Kawai sollved the problem by combiinging a sampler for the transient and an addtive synthesizer for the sustained part of a note. Not perfect but it reflects a keen understanding of addtive synthesis and its fundamental weakness.

So onto the Voyager. On Sunday, I printed myself out an entire manual and have been spot reading it. I know the fundamentals of synthesis but I am more interested in its modulation options, CV ins, MIDI and basic signal path.

First impressions could be summed up by sleek. Moog has clearly thiough deep here rather than broad. Most synths these days, and to some extent every my M3 although I like ti a lot, are plagued by what I would call horizontal thinking. Its what happened to Windows as well. You take a so so core engine and then add on lots of cosmetics.

Vertical thinking is when you look for ways to increase options more organically by allowing them to flow from the design rather than building them in. Example, the Voyager does PWM but its not an add on feature. I allows a continuous moprh of the waveform which can then be modulated by the internal LFO or for that matter and extenal CV. Very sleek.

Voyager also reflect a not so new but effective trick that I have learn, that detuning oscillator pitch creating a chorus like effect. Then, the Voyager syncs these ot the primary oscillator. Not huge feature wise but again, it creates an effect without adding one, sleek.

The using the 3rd Oscillator as a second LFO, again, very very sleek.

MIDI also is a great move.

The best for the last. An insert from the mixer to the filter - Brilliant! Simple but not many would have though of it and it adds an incredible amound of flexiblity.

From what I have read of the manual so far, just from an archetechture standpoint, simple, elegant and beautiful.

I feel now pretty confident in buying this synth. Once I can swing it financially I will get one. It will sit nicely on top of my M3 and I can't wait to combine some of the M3 pads with the lead sounds of the Voyager not to mention find all sort os ways to combine foogers with it.

I can also control it with KARMA. A Voyager and KARMA what a thought. I should not be needing a sequencer.

My only decision is what model to get. I like the Electric Blue backlighting but it looks like the it's just one of the versions of the select series but with sparkles in the wood. I may just go with the blue backlighting and either cherry or ash.

I could get one cheaper used but I can swing the extra $s and may even go for an extended warrenty to protect my investment.

Just a few final comments to close out this thread.

I just about finished completing what is usually the final stage for me before buying a serious (and expensive) piece of equipment like the Voyager. I purused the manual. Something even users don't often do but I find a full review of a manual is well spend. I don't read every section but I do read those sections that give me an overall understanding of how a particular synthesizers works.

My first impression of the Voyager was that it was a Minimoog with some nice additional features. Thats not my impression any more. Let me explain why:

CV Control

The ability to control the Voyager with external CVs is fantastic. When I started reading about this I thought about what I could do with my fooger and then at a latter date, how I could interface the Voyager with a small modular designed to enhance the Voyager.


Flexible Fitter Routing

I was also very impressed by the ability to have an insert in the audio chain between the filter and VCA. This allows for other modular filters to be used as well as foogers or whatever else can be thought up. It doesn't take the Voyager fully modular, but it sure does expand what can be done with it and creates a flexible interface with a modular.


]Modulation

The modulation options really blew me away. I knew that the Voyager had some options but when I started reading the lists of options, I kept thinking of all the different ways I could use these. Sure, having a modular would be more flexible but there is a whole lot of sonic space that can be had here with a bit of imagination.


POT mapping

Probably not a good name for these mapping which act more like a more flexible form of multis in a modular. Once again, the ability to create complex modulations of sound is extremly flexible.


The XYA Pad

I have an XY pad on my M3 and its nice. It changes color and I can record the movement of my finger on it so it that way, its more powrful than the Voyagers but I did not realize until I read the manual that the pad is 3 dimensional and responds to area but also produces a gate.

One of the techniques that I have learned from Morton Subotnick's technique but really failed to implement on a signficant level is how to use natural physical sounds to shape the electronic sounds of a synthesizer. Subotnick called these ghost tracks which were recorded on magnetic tape. Something similar can be done with the Voyager either using MOTU's Volta or seding the MIDI CC's from the Voyager to a Voyager. Or, the pad can simply be used in live performance which I am sure is more how it was intended.

In either case, there are many options here to create a natual feel to the music coming from the Voyager. I am also intriqued with using the pad to control Moogerfoogers with the expansion board. Another idea I thought of was to use area plus the MIDI note on message to trigger a sample coming in on the entenal audio and then using the area to control the mix. I could provide many many examples here.


The Bottom Line

The bottom line is that I find the Voyager to be an outstanding piece of musical equipment and the fact that just reading the manual set my find afire with new ideas on how to use it for my music makes me conclude that it will be my next purchase of musical equipment once I have the financing.

Lux_Seeker wrote: I just about finished completing what is usually the final stage for me before buying a serious (and expensive) piece of equipment like the Voyager. I purused the manual. Something even users don't often do but I find a full review of a manual is well spend. I don't read every section but I do read those sections that give me an overall understanding of how a particular synthesizers works.

Hi Lux_Seeker,

Glad to hear that you found the manual to be helpful in your decision-making process. A lot of time and effort went into creating the Voyager manual, and I'm glad to hear that effort has paid off for you!

As you've discovered, the Voyager is an extremely flexible instrument that works and plays well with other CV gear, especially Moogerfoogers. To make the best use of the Voyager's CV capabilities, you'll want to pick up a VX-351 CV Expander (Control Voltage breakout box) with your purchase. The VX-351 opens up an entire world of possibilities and options for CV interfacing.

The Voyager's Mix Out jack is a personal favorite feature. There are many ways to use this insert point - one of my favorites is to insert an Exciter in the Voyager's signal chain to boost the top end of the oscillators. This adds that 'airy' quality that I usually associate with the sound of modulars. Of course, you'll also want to try inserting other devices in the signal chain as well (chorus, phasing, flanging, EQ, tube preamps, etc.) just to see what you can do with it.

For even more ideas on Modulation and Pot Mapping possibilities, be sure to check out these articles on KnobTweak:

'Get On The Bus', which describes the Voyager's Modulation bus and options.

'Pot Mapping', which describes the Pot Mapping function and how you can make the most of it (it includes a dozen or so Mappings to get you started).

Both articles are in the 'Voyager' folder on KT.

Congrats on your decision to purchase a Voyager. You won't be disappointed!

- Greg

Lux:

Detuning VCO2, using VCO3 as an LFO and using the external input are three things I commonly do. As a matter of fact I don't think I've ever used VCO3 in any way other than as an LFO. The Voyager sounds good enough with just two VCOs in use.

I never really used the touchpad when I had my Performer. Now that I have an Old School I find myself missing it. I'll probably pick up a ribbon (or joystick) controller at some point. It won't be 100% the same but at least I'll get a little bit of that touchpad functionality back.

Enjoy your Voyager. I personally have always liked walnut and mahogany.

jon_kull wrote:The Voyager sounds good enough with just two VCOs in use.

So true. The third VCO can really liven things up as an LFO.

Greg, please find my responses below

GregAE wrote: Glad to hear that you found the manual to be helpful in your decision-making process. A lot of time and effort went into creating the Voyager manual, and I'm glad to hear that effort has paid off for you!

Did you work on the manual? If so my complements. It's pretty well written. Before I buy a synth be it a software or hardware synth, I always take at least a peak at the manual. Sure, I listen to samples of sounds and watch videos but I want to know what direction I can take a synth in with my music.

As you've discovered, the Voyager is an extremely flexible instrument that works and plays well with other CV gear, especially Moogerfoogers.

Yes, it is flexible. Frankly a lot more than I expected and since I have 4 Foogers and a CP-251, I can do a lot with it.

To make the best use of the Voyager's CV capabilities, you'll want to pick up a VX-351 CV Expander (Control Voltage breakout box) with your purchase. The VX-351 opens up an entire world of possibilities and options for CV interfacing.

I will eventually buy the VX-351. This synth will set me back a bit financially but I will probably buy this when I get the money. It's not that expensive but in the meantime I can learn how to use the Voyager.

The Voyager's Mix Out jack is a personal favorite feature. There are many ways to use this insert point - one of my favorites is to insert an Exciter in the Voyager's signal chain to boost the top end of the oscillators. This adds that 'airy' quality that I usually associate with the sound of modulars. Of course, you'll also want to try inserting other devices in the signal chain as well (chorus, phasing, flanging, EQ, tube preamps, etc.) just to see what you can do with it.

Yes, I have a whole list of things I want to insert. Foogers, some Boss and EH guitar pedals, an Eventide Eclipse but also a fulll collection of effects on my Korg M3 including an exiter. In fact, the M3 has the flexiblity to become part of the Voyager signal chain without even effecting the rest of it by passing through the effect chain to seperate outs. However, I do intend to tie the two together then MIDI which as I said is a major plus for the Voyager.

Because of the insert on the Voyager, I also eventually plan on expanding it with a modular. By leaving on part of the insert unplugged, I suspect you can even send an osillator signal into the chain and clearly, other modular filters can also be used. So the most essential parts of the Voyager chain can be substituted which allows it to be part of a larger modular system.

For even more ideas on Modulation and Pot Mapping possibilities, be sure to check out these articles on KnobTweak:

'Get On The Bus', which describes the Voyager's Modulation bus and options.

'Pot Mapping', which describes the Pot Mapping function and how you can make the most of it (it includes a dozen or so Mappings to get you started).

Both articles are in the 'Voyager' folder on KT.

Thanks I will

Congrats on your decision to purchase a Voyager. You won't be disappointed!

- Greg

Thanks and yes, I am confident that I will not be. Frankly, I hear samples of modulars and I start to wonder what the fuss is but I hear the Voyager and almost all the samples I have heard of it sound beautiful.

jon_kull wrote:Lux:

Detuning VCO2, using VCO3 as an LFO and using the external input are three things I commonly do. As a matter of fact I don't think I've ever used VCO3 in any way other than as an LFO. The Voyager sounds good enough with just two VCOs in use.

I never really used the touchpad when I had my Performer. Now that I have an Old School I find myself missing it. I'll probably pick up a ribbon (or joystick) controller at some point. It won't be 100% the same but at least I'll get a little bit of that touchpad functionality back.

Enjoy your Voyager. I personally have always liked walnut and mahogany.

Jon:

I will probably make the same use of Osc 3 myself. As for the touchpad, as I said, I have the digital version on the M3 which is pretty sleek in a way because you can actually record you finger movements but I like the Voyager's use of area and the fact that it can also be used as a trigger. I am not sure that this would also generate a note on message but if it did, this might interface nicely with my M3. I actually see the combination of the M3 arsenal of effects and sounds along with the analogue sounds and CVs of the Voyager and the ability for them to speak to each other via MIDI and of course crossing their audio streams (which is not dangerous I hope ) can create a very powerful hybrid. A little down the road combining that with a small expansion modular system with some filters and perhaps some oscillators and effects, could make for a very flexible and powerful music making system.

I can also sample the Voyager with the M3 and allow KARMA to play the M3. I can't wait to hear what a KARMified Voyager sounds like.

I also have a Radius built into my M3 (a neat little Korg trick) which also has a step sequencer that I can use with the Voyager via MIDI. Of course, there is also Ableton Live and its collecion of MIDI tools.