Moog Music Forum

haiku-ish wrote: you know they were faulty ?

Amos why have you waiting son long to talk about the board replacement ?

Assar wrote: I did the same reflection.

Me too and, honestly, I have to say that is somehow unacceptable the noise thing. I'm trying to be as positive as possible but still not very satisfied. It's not a cheap instrument and it seems to have a design failure, definitely a Moog Music failure.

The other day I was playing a theremin sound (volume envelope, self resonating filter with full tracking, a bit of LFO mod to the filter and a quite long glide) and sounded very very nice but with a noticeable digital artifacts on the background

Probably the solution they're proposing is a very good but I wonder if we shold ask for more with regards to a "known" design failure.

I'm from Europe too, with warranty expiring next February.

I guess if they knew they must replace the boards for free.....warranty or no warranty.

Now it's you guys (the last posters), and not Amos, who are walking on my nerves. It's exactly this kind of customers which makes fair deals hard to reach.

As far as I know Moog did not know beforehand that these boards would cause the kind of problem we are facing. No wonder: it does not occur right away when using an LPTE, and I stumbled upon it only when I did some more sound editing and programming. I know people just using the device as an analog presets machine, who aren't aware of the problem even until now. You can use lots of sounds with the synth without really facing the problem, and you still get a lot of great analog Moog sound at a very reasonable price.

Now Amos is trying to name things as they are and to make the best of the situation. Instead of seeking for a fair compromise (reduced board replacement price or the like) you begin this talk about warranty.

The only result of this kind of talk are companies like Roland and others, who don't even talk with their customers within a helpful forum, but leave the users alone with technical problems and OS issues for long times, and sometimes forever. And you would wait forever for a "warranty cause" with these companies, because they wouldn't even give you a clue and you would have a hard time claiming anything besides total technical failures.

So let's behave like musicians who want Moog to stay here for more than 5 years and seek a fair deal facing a difficult situation for both(!!!) sides. As a musician I regard this company as a partner, not an enemy, as long as I see fair people like Amos on the other side and can continue to enjoy this gorgeous Moog sound.

I will not support anything else, and I am ready to pay a reasonable price for a newer board, because besides a bugfix I will get a lot of new functionality which I appreciate. So guys, please don't spoil a possible reasonable agreement with loads of aggressive claiming.

who are walking on my nerves. It's exactly this kind of customers which makes fair deals hard to reach.

so why moog did not propose the board replacement earlier ?


beside this,
i'm agree to pay a "fair" price for a new board

jimknopf wrote: Now Amos is trying to name things as they are and to make the best of the situation. Instead of seeking for a fair compromise (reduced board replacement price or the like) you begin this talk about warranty.

Didn't wanted to sound aggressive, it was just a thougth. I bought mine 1.5 years ago and talking about warranty is just a way to apply some pressure. I understand they're on the way to solve this but I want to get it solved in a reasonable time from now, which probably will happen. I have to admit i'm getting too absessive with this. I should play more and complain less.

jimknopf wrote: I will not support anything else, and I am ready to pay a reasonable price for a newer board, because besides a bugfix I will get a lot of new functionality which I appreciate. So guys, please don't spoil a possible reasonable agreement with loads of aggressive claiming.

I appreciate a lot the efforts Amos is doing for us and not only regarding to the noise issue. Moog seems to be interested in solving the problem too. Sadly, I fear a new board at a reasonable price is something I could not afford but let's wait and see.

I have to agree with Jimknoph,

Bob started this company in his garage, developing modules for experimental musicians. If it wasn't for the direct conversations with artists, there never would have been an envelope generator, or a fixed filter bank, or percussion modules.

THese conversations led to the Minimoog and other great synths that remain the industry's best sounding and most sought after synths 40 years going strong.

Amos is one of the nicest guys Ive dealt with at Moog and for someone with so much on his plate every day, you should feel appreciative that he even bothers to answer peoples questions no matter how agressive the customer gets.

If you want a cold Robot like Roland's customer service then keep pressuring them. But in the end, Moog still has the highest quality instruments and the best sound so if you don't want to buy Moog products because of principle then there will be an empty place in your heart where a Moog once sat.

THats all im going to say on this issue.


Thanks, Bob.

Well, that was a very moving email Erik, a real tear jerker, but never the less, the problem remains and it's obvious that some people can live with it and others cannot. I personally find it to be almost unusable because of the noise. I'm not sure how many users of the Tribute work in studio's? I do, and find the noise to be very noticeable and the work around tends to get in the way of creativity. The software solution still sounds interesting but then it did a year ago. There are solutions coming but the real solution will cost extra money. Now, it's true to say that for that extra money you will get a new Phatty + 2.0 software etc., which is a rather nice thought, but it's also true to say that if the problem units weren't sold I you would have bought a Stage Edition straight away and still had a few hundred euro's left to go out and celebrate.

So, although Moog are indeed a very customer minded company and seem to be very active on the Forums and others, and although the tribute is otherwise a very nice synthesizer, they still sold 1500 Moog's with a rather irritating noise issue.

A solution is at hand and for this, I will gladly pay. It's just a great shame that I have to. Which still leaves "an empty place in my heart where Moog once sat."

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Frankly, jimknopfn, I don't give a ******* if I get get on your nerves. If you don't have any problems with you LP then just don't take part of the debate. With all respect - if everything's just fine for you then you are not concerned.

Yes, Amos is a nice guy. I think so to. And I'm not arguing with him but with the Moog company. Amos is their representative. And if noone insists, Moog has no driver to solve the problem. So thank us annoying bastards (cause you benefit from a solution too) or stay out of the discussion.

I know things can go wrong, and they obioulsy did in the TE-case. It's okey, no big deal. Every disfunction will not be discovered in acceptance tests. That's life. And when that happens you have to do something about it.

Still, the attempt to solve it with a software work-around is out of sight. That's not acceptable from a customer point of view. The MLPTE is not a little Roland preset keyboard sold in thousands to little kids. It's a Moog!

Again, you who don't have any problems with your TEs, I congratulate you! Now, be so kind and keep out of a discussion that obiously is not concering you. Play you instrument instead of undermining our attempts to get a work-around to a soon 2 year old problem that needs to be solved.

Please contact Amos directly! He's very busy as he has explained and he WILL make sure that your concerns are worked to your satisfaction as best as possible. (amos@moogmusic.com)

We are a small company and we are manufacturing analog gear.

This process is not trivial and the crew here, including Amos, Cryil, SteveD, and many more are making sure that everything is up to muster!

We all miss Dr. Moog and everyone here has no intentions of compromising his vision!

Eheh, it's getting tough in here
I no longer participate in that debate because, well, it's sort of driving in circles and I had my share anyway of pointless bashing from people who aren't concerned with the issue, complete with some good ole xenophobia, BUT I just wanted to add my support to the previous comments, so that you guys Assar, CheeseDetective and all the other frustrated consumers don't feel too lonely

Thanks, theglyph. I guess you are working for Moog.

Just because you are a small company you should take care of the customers you already have. First time buyers are likely to become second time buyers - if they are satisfied. And the LP is a 'my-first-moog-product'.

I already have contact with Amos and he suggested a numer (5) of solution, inlcuding selling the LP (I guess he wasn't serious about that one).

But before getting into any major technical operations it is wise to try the work-around-to-come, if it comes. Maybe it's good enough, maybe not. But we won't know until it is released.

Let's put the obvious together:

- some people I know just use the LP as analog preset machine and show limited concern about the issue we discuss

- those discussing here obviously don't want to stay with the present status any longer. I myself wrote "I'm not happy about LPTE status, but interested in a hardware board replacement as well", as everybody could read (including you, Assar).

- expecting a small company like Moog to replace our boards for free, and with this step agree to be responsible to exchange more than thousand boards for free at any possible request (spreading soon), adding worldwide shipping costs and/or replacement costs in many countries obviously would lead to some absurd result: it would be a financial blow a bit too heavy for such a company and might even lead to no updates or worse no Moogs.

- waiting for any solution has already lasted too long, and Moog staff knows it. The problem will not vanish, and the planned software workaround is no really convincing solution as far as we can tell so far.


So all in all I think we should get a fair offer for a board replacement at a reasonable price. This would not lead to a situation which could not be handled by Moog, and besides the bugfix we would enjoy more functionality than the TE originally had.


Assar, you sometimes become a bit rude, and of course I could answer talking about what I don't give a ****. But frankly, I don't feel insulted too fast. I don't seek confrontation, just want to be clear cut myself. I guess we all in here should rather look for common interests which I guess we have (including Moog), so cheers and let's see what can be done.

Assar, can you give us the 5 solutions Amos gave to you ? (4 is ok too...)

I am interested in a replacement board, with the extra memory upgrade as needed to use the current software, and Os's in the future. I will not bring into play any harshness, as I have built electronic devices of many complexities, and know one can rarely be 100% certain everything will work flawlessly. Not to mention doing software...

But if Moog Music is willing to sell updated, and 'refined' boards, I am very content with that solution.
The long nights of winter are not far off.
Best to all,
Magnet

jimknopf wrote:I myself wrote "I'm not happy about LPTE status, but interested in a hardware board replacement as well", as everybody could read (including you, Assar).

Sorry, I don't keep track on what everyone said earlier in the discussion. I was commenting your latest post.

About the board replacement. I have to figure out what that means, in a practical sense. Am I going to order it from Moog, delivered to my doorstep? If so, what am I going to do with it? I am not a technician so I propably have to find someone who can do it for me? What about if it doesn't work? My warranty is a deal with my retailer, is it still valid then?
Or is my retailer fixing everyting? Or does Moog take full responsibility all the way? Is it worth the cost and the trouble? Or is the software work-around good enough? I don't know because it hasn't been developed.

Too many questions pop up in my head.

I don't mean to be rude. Maybe you feel that way because english is not my native language. Words have different value in different parts of the world and english is an international language. So we just have to accept that what people write on an international site not necessarily can be interpreted the way we are used to.

Still, I get angry with people who doesn't have that problem with their TE, or isn't capable of observing it, and who write comments that they are sooooo tired of us complaining, and that Moog is soooooooo wonderful to take care of their customers.
I appreciate Amos too. And definitely this fora, where we have the possibility to discuss directly with Moog representatives. Not to mention Moog's products. But that doesn't make it 'ok' to down prioritize ........ ah ... you know. I've said it all before ... getting pretty tired of it too ...

haiku-ish wrote:Assar, can you give us the 5 solutions Amos gave to you ? (4 is ok too...)

I prefer to let Amos speak for himself ...