Just played a Roland Gaia at the store

[_DemonDan_]

In the context of a moog forum for people who spend thousands to play
a single note, perhaps advice on here isn't appropriate for most people.

You are probably right. The whole thing has become a bit quixotic.

The funny thing is that the flak is nearly the same when I'm defending
the value of Moog gear in other forums. It's probably a good time to bail.

[EricK]

Dan,
I am fortunate that I come from a musical family. I didn’t really have a choice as to what would become of me. I also worked in retail for several years (some of that time was selling musical instruments, some of that time was also selling bongs and sextoys in a cd shop but I digress) most of that time was corporate retail grocery stores, so you are talking to someone who has a passion for music AND a strong desire to help people find the tools they need to make the best music. I can tell that you love what you do by the way that you present yourself and I have a lot of respect for that and the knowledge that you can bring to this forum. I hope you don’t feel pressured to leave us because of petty internet BS.

I guess you are finding yourself in between both extremes (forums) where no matter what you get shat upon.


As far as your response to me….

Im actually glad that you described modular in that context. That sheds some light on the unit. It would have been great for that to be communicated in the catalog. Im fully aware of digital modules. My understanding of the word modular is referring to a customizable and interchangeable components that together function as a system. (Modular stereos from the 80s and 90s, modular homes modular furniture, etc) When i posted that quote from you, I was speaking to the points of some of the other members, not necessarily the ones that I hold myself.

For that matter though, anything can sound like a modular synth, for if the system is big enough it can replicate all sounds, right? The freqbox sounds like a modular synth [with a simple patch] and some people here HATE the freqbox because of the way it sounds.

***

The only company that is listening to us here is Moog (i suspect doepfer too heh), and thank BOB they aren’t corporate like other companies. Roland makes stuff that sells to the broadest market they can, while Moog’s is more esoteric. So I can see why you are getting flack from people on other forums about how Moog is all overrated and getting flack here about how crappy digital filters and $600 polyphony. Some of us here expect the Moog poly to cost thousands and be as big as a house, and some are saving for that very synth.


You seem like a very strong minded person, very firm in your beliefs. I respect that. I appreciate your devotion to products that you really think can benefit people, from one salesman to another.

Again, I hope that you stick around cause you have a lot of valuable knowledge that is highly appreciated, though at times may seem like it isn’t.

You and I have argued about the D-Beam before, and while we disagree, I still look forward to your posts here.

I did think you were a little harsh on Voltor though lol.

Respectfully
Eric

[LivePsy]

Don't go Dan, this is one of the best threads. No one is bashing you. We've all gone out on a limb and defended a position then wished we hadn't

Its OK to dislike an instrument (bagpipes anyone) as long as there is a reason why you feel that way. Its easy to own a Moog and feel superior, although I personally feel glad I can have something I wanted as teenager. The fact that I could have bought a new car back then or a second hand one now isn't part of it. The fact that a bunch of cold circuits is arranged in a musical way is why I like the Voyager. If I did get my hands on a Gaia I am sure I would have fun finding out how it works, although it is so similar to all the other digital gear I have that I don't really need it. I guess the question really should be: if you didn't have any digital synths, how bad would you want a Gaia?

[Mr Arkadin]

Well I wasn't really bashing Roland as such, but I justed wanted to make the point that they have changed direction as a company, otherwise given my long list of Roland kit I own I would naturally still be buying Roland kit. Obviously they have a bigger target than people like me as they shift units, but that seems to be the problem. OK every company wants to sell their products, but a company with such a huge range of products cannot produce one piece of kit that I'm really interested in buying? Just one piece?

And no, I wouldn't say Roland kit is garbage, it's still usually made well, but musically the just miss the mark for me where they once used to hit the bullseye.

[Voltor07]

Dan, please don't go. You are a great resource for all things synth! I think we can all agree to disagree on certain products put out by various companies, but it all comes down to synthesizers in the end. Everyone here shares one thing in common: a love for synthesizers. Mostly analog, but numerous people here also own digital synths or (dare I say it) software synths. That is the one thing we all have in common. We all like creating sounds. We all have our opinions on the best way to do that, affordably or expensively...but it all comes down to synthesis in the end.

[HowardJones]

On the notion of Roland aiming at bigger targets than you or me, I was surprised to find out about

this

- which while not a synth, would seem to appeal to a very limited market. I bet it's not cheap either!

[Sweep]

Re Howard Jones' post above -

There's a niche market for period instruments - harpsichord, some kinds of organ, etc, with A=415 tuning and so forth.

Roland instruments are well regarded in that area.

[Mr Arkadin]

Yeah, if you look at their old catalogues they always had digital harpsichords very early on - 1989-ish? onwards. They also have that weird German/Austrian market of V-Accordions.

[Rayek]

While digging the depths here, I thought I'd put in a few words.

As a music listener, I've always had an active interest in electronic music, but only recently has it truly affected me enough to want to create my own music. Unfortunately, this 'recession' has quite left me in the dumps, and to afford a polyphonic analog synth is far beyond my budget. At least one with the kind of expandable options that I'd need, like more than 3 arpeggiators, and MIDI. I've been bouncing back and forth about what to get, a Juno 6/60/106 to the GAIA, to everything in between the prices of $300 and $800. To make this absolutely clear, if I could afford something polyphonic, truly analog with excellent filters and 3 LFOs, as well as dedicated controls for each, I would get it. There is no question in my mind that anything the GAIA can output will pale in comparison to a truly analog setup.

What the GAIA does offer me, as a 'thrifty' consumer, is essentially something to start with, then perhaps toss $800 somewhere down the line and get a Slim Phatty, and the GAIA becomes basically a gigantic MIDI controller with dedicated knobs and sliders. A MIDI controller that expansive already costs about 1/3rd or more of a GAIA. Add in the really steppy and comparatively dull oscillators, a 'passable' filter, and the ability to stack 3 separate tones for actually quite good sounding pad sounds, and it seems worth it.

If I had a choice, or didn't want to start making music until 2012, Voyager or Jupiter 8, no doubt. I kind of don't have a choice. And hey, if it really just sucks, I'll use what I sell it for towards something better

[Voltor07]

While digging the depths here, I thought I'd put in a few words.

As a music listener, I've always had an active interest in electronic music, but only recently has it truly affected me enough to want to create my own music. Unfortunately, this 'recession' has quite left me in the dumps, and to afford a polyphonic analog synth is far beyond my budget. At least one with the kind of expandable options that I'd need, like more than 3 arpeggiators, and MIDI. I've been bouncing back and forth about what to get, a Juno 6/60/106 to the GAIA, to everything in between the prices of $300 and $800. To make this absolutely clear, if I could afford something polyphonic, truly analog with excellent filters and 3 LFOs, as well as dedicated controls for each, I would get it. There is no question in my mind that anything the GAIA can output will pale in comparison to a truly analog setup.

What the GAIA does offer me, as a 'thrifty' consumer, is essentially something to start with, then perhaps toss $800 somewhere down the line and get a Slim Phatty, and the GAIA becomes basically a gigantic MIDI controller with dedicated knobs and sliders. A MIDI controller that expansive already costs about 1/3rd or more of a GAIA. Add in the really steppy and comparatively dull oscillators, a 'passable' filter, and the ability to stack 3 separate tones for actually quite good sounding pad sounds, and it seems worth it.

If I had a choice, or didn't want to start making music until 2012, Voyager or Jupiter 8, no doubt. I kind of don't have a choice. And hey, if it really just sucks, I'll use what I sell it for towards something better

An interesting point of view. There are some excellent points here, especially since it can be used as a reasonably priced MIDI controller with a sound engine...hmm...and, yes, it is polyphonic...but it will depreciate faster than a Moog, as digital synths grow obsolete by the minute. The Gaia is not something I would buy, but I do now appreciate that there is a market for it.

[Rayek]

An interesting point of view. There are some excellent points here, especially since it can be used as a reasonably priced MIDI controller with a sound engine...hmm...and, yes, it is polyphonic...but it will depreciate faster than a Moog, as digital synths grow obsolete by the minute. The Gaia is not something I would buy, but I do now appreciate that there is a market for it.

Haha yes, there is no doubt this is an 'intro' synth. And I sadly fall right into that category. That being said, it's hard to imagine that Roland would try to bring people into the synthesis world and not offer a more complete, or dare I say analog, counterpart some time in the future. The GAIA exists to newbies as a sort of portal into this crazy synth universe, and for synth experts it is a glaring example of why analog won't be surpassed by digital synthesis anytime soon. The only way Roland could make this into a truly 'good' idea is to release something similar, but analog.

The only thing that has come even close to having all the functions I want around the same price point would be the JP 8000, but I have no idea what to expect as far as quality from Roland's first foray into analog modeling synthesis. It's hard to imagine it sounding better than something sorta brand-new.

Also, as a side note, the Luftrum patches for the GAIA are showing me everything I need to know about it's capabilities. While most don't exactly sound analog, they sound rather nice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ott1sZw0Ihc

[peterkadar]

That demo sounded great. Ease of use, polyphony, battery power...

Did it sound like a Moog? Of course not. And the filters... yeah, I can see what people are saying about it. But it's still got a place for a lot of people.

That's why we have Moog and DSI. And Nord does a decent job of the electromechanical stuff for gigs too. Roland stuff probably interests me the least out of the big three right now. Still, I can't bring myself to dislike the Gaia.

[psicolor]

The filters sounded weak and cheap honestly. The whole thing sounded weak and cheap.

I played on a sh101 some months ago. It also sounded very cheap and weak, but i liked it a lot!
Strange thing.

[Voltor07]

Weak and cheap does have some uses when it comes to sound...Even the Little Phatty can sound weak and cheap. I'd rather have an expensive synth that can sound weak and cheap than a weak and cheap synth that ALWAYS sounds weak and cheap. Just my opinion.

[nizzyo]

I just purchased the sh-01 two days ago. I was just playing around with it and thought it sounded ok. I plugged in my little phatty and played the same riff I was playing on my roland and it just woke me up. The room was shaking and the electricity was dancing. I love moog, thank you so much. I'm keeping the gaia for now, even though it sounds plastic, its really easy to travel with. Its going to do all the dirty work while the phatty is strictly for the studio.