Voyager RME Schipmann Ebbe Und Flut ...Which mooger foogers

[themoogster]

Hi All,

First post here and quite new to the idea of modular synths but loving the sound of real analogue so i'm looking to get deeper into it and hope some kind people with experience of both these units can offer me sme advice.
I have a Voyager RME which i love and also just got a schipmann ebbe flut which is awesome semi modular effects unit.
http://www.schippmann-music.com/ebbeundflut

So i really want to use the cv potential of the ebbe and flut with my voyager to get some cool stuff going on.
Thing is funds are limited and i really haven't quite got my head around the cv/modular side of things yet so was hoping some folks could help answer a few questions and give me some pointers/advice so i can decide what i need to get to start me off for the best results on smallest budget. Not really looking at moogerfoogers exactly yet...but mor vx351 352 and maybe CP2501

So let me start by checking if i am thinking on the right lines....
1) If for example i have the audio of a drum loop going into main input on ebbe & flut and i then wanted the envolope of the ebbe & flut to trigger the filter cut off of the voyager...i would need the VX 352 and i would patch env out of ebbe into filter cut off on vx 352...is this right?

2)If i were to set it up this way...and i have my rme connected to my mixer in stereo...does this/do these types of cv connections prevent voyager being used in stereo at all?

3)If i wanted to do something similair in reverse...then i would need the vx351 and would connect env filter/volume output to any of the ebbe flut parameters i want it trigger? Again, any pobs with mono/stereo doing this? as the voyager i wish to use in stereo but ebbe only has mono output.

4) If i have the VX351, could i also use it to use the midi capability of the voyager to control certain parameters of the ebbe which does not have any midi...eg if i have a patch lead going from KBD vel output of the vx351 going into VCF1 of the ebbe, i would then be able to control from my midi keyboard via velocity the freq1/res1 of ebbe flut?

5) Then the next area of confusion is with the different stereo/mono connections between the two units....ie a lot of the connections on the ebbe are 1/4 " stereo where as on the vx they are mono....would i use a stereo to mono cable...how do i determine in this example whether i am controlling the Filter or res as they are both on the same stereo jack on the ebbe?
What sort of patch lead would i need to get?

So i am assuming I could get very good results with connecting the voyager to the ebbe in this way before i have even started adding any of the moogerfoogers which i will save for when i have more cash.
Does this all sound like a good idea? Would i have lot of mileage in this set up? I gather that there are somel uses for the vx351 and vx352 even just for use with voyager alone...although slightly limited without any other modular gear....but i am assuming that the ebbe will open up many more windows when combined.

SO one last question...where in the hell does the CP2501 fit into all of this? Will at add a lot more potential for crazy sounds...how so?
...any other tips advice as to what you think i could/should do with this set up would be very much appreciated. I can stretch to vx351/2 and cp2501 to start with if i really will get a great deal extra capabilities out of having all three...but if i was to get just one, is there a clear winner as to what would offer the most potential to start with?

Many Thanks
James

[EricK]

1. Right You could use the ebbe's envelope, or you could send a gate to the filter to use the Voyager's envelope.

2. No. The Voyager is stereo and a CV input won’t affect the audio output.

3. The audio output on your Ebbe is mono. Heres a work around:
You can multiply the audio output with the Vx351’s mult. THen send one to the mixer panned left and the other to another channel of your mixer panned right.

4. Yes the RME with a Vx351 is a Midi to CV converter.

5. It sounds like the ebbe might be wired to affect the resonance and the cutoff with one CV, like one being controlled on the tip of the plug and one on the ring or sleeve perhaps. You might need to really study the voltage differences of the two units and make SURE they are fully compatible. I don’t think the Voyager has a resonance CV input. If you can determine which part of the plug carries the cutoff voltage, then perhaps a mono cable would do the job. I really can’t answer this one with certainty.

6. It sounds like a great idea provided that the voltages are compatible and the means to export them are as well (not having different signals on one cable). In order to externalize the voltages from the voyager you need the Vx351. In order to internalize voltages you need the Vx352. The CP 251 is like an extra modulation buss. It will let you combine voltages, has an LFO, another mult, 2 active attenuators which can reverse your voltages for interesting effects. It has 2 forms of sample and hold, a noise source and a lag processor. You can live without a CP251 and still get great sounds, but a CP 251 will also give you extra goodies that will work as a good mediator between your ebbe and your Voyager. It will greatly expand upon the CV ins and outs that you would already have with the RME 351/352 combination, but it is not essential.
If you could get just one……Are you talking about a Fooger or one of the vx or cp modules.

Id say you really need the vx units before the cp251.

Eric

[themoogster]

Wow, thanks for the info Eric.
I will look into the control voltages and compatibility between the voyager/expanders and the ebbe und flut...i hope they are compatible!
Anyone else reading this have any experience with this set up able to clarify compatibility by any chance?

Eric, when i said if i were to get just one to begin with i kinda meant between the vx 351 & 352, but now that you have explained it i guess they offer the same capabilities but one is to go out with cv and one is to go in so guess it just depends which is more useful for me to get me started...prob just get both and then get cp2501 at later date.

Thanks Again
james

[analoghaze]

I have a Voyager RME which i love and also just got a schipmann ebbe flut which is awesome semi modular effects unit.

Welcome to the forum. I would love to try an Ebbe. It sure seems awasome.
The absolute coolest part of what you have and what you may expand to is that you can do it slowly. Two pieces a year would give you time to learn each piece and time to save.
Don't rule out Moogerfoogers so quickly. The phase has an LFO out and is quite good sounding.
I would recomend getting the voltage expansion modules for your RME first though. That way you can have all the ins and out there for what you have and what you may get.

So i am assuming I could get very good results with connecting the voyager to the ebbe in this way before i have even started adding any of the moogerfoogers which i will save for when i have more cash.

Yes, you will get good results. Do you have the cable to use the Mixer Out/Filter In jack on the RME?

The CP-251 will add alot, but more so after you add the module to give your RME the voltage ins.

2. No. The Voyager is stereo and a CV input won’t affect the audio output.

Unless you send that CV input to the panning or volume on the Voyager. You would still be stereo, but you will be modulating the panning and volume with something. (this is where the CP-251 may come in handy..... adding a triangle or square wave)
You can create some neat trem sounds by using the Moog ring mod while messing with the volume CV in.

I don’t think the Voyager has a resonance CV input.

It does not, but the Moog 101 LPF does. (envelope out as well)

2 active attenuators which can reverse your voltages for interesting effects.

Only the newer models can reverse or invert voltages. The older one have not been made in years. They have red nuts on the input jacks. The new model has white paint under the input jacks. If you find one used, try to get a newer model. Inverting the signals is sweet!!!

Good luck.

[themoogster]

cheers for the info analoghaze .
Regarding the cable to use the Mixer Out/Filter In jack on the RME ..is it a 1/4" stereo to two mono y type cable.
Could i only be running through the whole audio this way ..ie there is no scope for cv control through this in/out...is it only for processing the entire sound of the moog through the main audio in/out of the ebbe?
I do have maleko b:assmaster distortion pedal that i will try and set up in this way...happy days!

[Sir Nose]

For an insert cable the tip and sleeve goto one mono split and the ring and sleeve goto the other.

[analoghaze]

Regarding the cable to use the Mixer Out/Filter In jack on the RME ..is it a 1/4" stereo to two mono y type cable.
Could i only be running through the whole audio this way ..ie there is no scope for cv control through this in/out...is it only for processing the entire sound of the moog through the main audio in/out of the ebbe?
I do have maleko b:assmaster distortion pedal that i will try and set up in this way...happy days!

Yes, the cable you described is correct.
This is "only" for processing... correct. You can still use the CV jacks though.
Technically, it is not the "entire" sound of the moog through the incert effect. It is the raw osc. sound before the filters in the Voyager. Adding distortion here is super cool. Different sounding than on the main outs.
With the sonic possibilities of the Ebbe, I recommend the incert cable before anything.
Really, if you do not have the proper cable, get one as soon as possible.

I did some demos of effects in the loop. They are here:

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... ht=sherman

Delay effect here:

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... 915#p64915

There are neat possibilities with the loop.
I use it quite often. Sometimes in more "complex" ways than other times. You can do some really cool stuff!!

Enjoy.

[themoogster]

Ok, so i tried this Mix Out/filt in loop and set it up as you say and double checked in the manual and set it up how it said... i think.

I used a stereo to mono y cable . Plugged the stereo end into the mix out /filt in socket and then put the tip to audio in and ring to audio out of my ebbe and flut and also tried same thing with a distortion pedal
Doesn't seem to be working....i am losing the sound of the oscillator when i plug the jack in...although if i close the filter and turn up the resonance i do get audio. But the ebbe doesn't seem to be in the loop and none of the 3 osc on the moog play.
Am i missing something, doing something wrong? Do i need to set something else up in the menu...or may i have a prob with my mix out jack...i tried another of the same cable so don't think it is the cable....unless i'm using the wrong one.
Any ideas guys and gals?

[analoghaze]

I used a stereo to mono y cable .

Is it possible to see a picture of the cable?

Plugged the stereo end into the mix out /filt in socket and then put the tip to audio in and ring to audio out of my ebbe and flut and also tried same thing with a distortion pedal

Try reversing the cable.

i am losing the sound of the oscillator when i plug the jack in

This is normal.

if i close the filter and turn up the resonance i do get audio

This is normal.
It is the filter's self oscillation.

the ebbe doesn't seem to be in the loop and none of the 3 osc on the moog play.

The ebbe is not in the loop. The 3 oscillators are technically playing, but you cannot hear them.

Am i missing something, doing something wrong?

Yes. My guess is the cable is either plugged in wrong or the incorrect cable.

Do i need to set something else up in the menu...

No.

Any ideas guys and gals?

We'll figure this out. Try a few things and get back to us.

[themoogster]

Here is a link which has the exact cable i am using.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &A=details

I haven't tried reversing the tip and ring yet because i wasn't sure if that could damage the ebbe audio in or out..i will try that and get back to you assuming i am using the right cable.

When you say it is normal to lose the sound of the oscillators it confuses me...how come? Do they not work in the same way when this loop is set up?
cheers for the help doood.

[themoogster]

Ok...switched the wires round and it is indeed working a treat now...bloody marvelous!
thanks so much for all the help.

[analoghaze]

When you say it is normal to lose the sound of the oscillators it confuses me...how come?

When you incert the cable, it breaks the signal chain. You need to complete the signal to hear the audio.

thanks so much for all the help.

You ar ewelcome. Enjoy!!