Little Phatty vs. Voyager: With one should I buy?

[narrowcaster]

Personally, I went with the LP not because I couldn't afford the Voyager (I could), but because I liked it better. Yes, the feature set is more limited, but it still does much more than my old Model D used to do (although I wouldn't be happy with it if I didn't also have a CP-251). And I find that musically, more possibilities isn't always a good thing. The LP offers enough for my needs, and I don't get distracted exploring all kinds of possibilities. For similar reasons, I find the smaller size and more streamlined interface to be major plusses. So, without disagreeing with anyone (this is all about personal taste and style anyway), I would suggest that more doesn't always equal better: give some thought to the benefits of owning an instrument that offers just as much as you need. If the sound is good then getting bored shouldn't be an issue -- a piano offers just *one* basic tone and even that can be a whole lifetime of music.

[anoteoftruth]

Personally, I went with the LP not because I couldn't afford the Voyager (I could), but because I liked it better. Yes, the feature set is more limited, but it still does much more than my old Model D used to do (although I wouldn't be happy with it if I didn't also have a CP-251). And I find that musically, more possibilities isn't always a good thing. The LP offers enough for my needs, and I don't get distracted exploring all kinds of possibilities. For similar reasons, I find the smaller size and more streamlined interface to be major plusses. So, without disagreeing with anyone (this is all about personal taste and style anyway), I would suggest that more doesn't always equal better: give some thought to the benefits of owning an instrument that offers just as much as you need. If the sound is good then getting bored shouldn't be an issue -- a piano offers just *one* basic tone and even that can be a whole lifetime of music.

I have to agree with you. I find a lot of the times I go to the LP actually BECAUSE it's simpler. I can usually get around things faster to get the sound I need. I don't know if I personally like it better or not, but I definitely feel like I love the LP and RME on similar levels, but for different things. I'm also definitely glad I got a LP first, and a RME second. I think I would've been more confused with the Voyager off the bat, being a newbie to synths... but the LP made everything really easy to understand/tweak/learn from. Then after getting a RME it made it really easy to catch on to the additional features.

I still swear on my grandfathers grave, that they sound different as well. To me, there is a noticeable difference.. of which I actually go to one or the other for.

And I think there is something to be said about how much the LP can actually do. People that just keep saying it does not do what the Voyager does... To a newbies ears that might sound like its inferior or doesn't do a lot.

But let me be clear.. it does do a lot.. and for a newbie to the Moog world, it'll take you some time to really explore the entire synth and find all its creative boundaries. By the time a noob does that, I would predict they could save enough money for 2 voyagers on a modest budget.

So in my view, it's not exactly like, "if you get a LP instead of a Voyager, your losing out"... If you get a LP first, your gonna have a lot of ability for creativity at your disposal, and will probably take you quite sometime to maximize it. If you ever do long for the extra features of the Voyager, then by the time you get one, you will really appreciate what those features are, and what they add to your setup... Instead of being totally blind to what they do, and hardly ever utilizing them untill way later anyway.

I know this post sounds bias towards the LP... but I'm really thinking in terms of a synth noob asking what would be good for his first synth... I don't know why everyone would jump and say "a Voyager for sure, it'll just give you more mmph" or whatever... It's like a kid asking what would be a good first car, and pointing him directly at a pricy BMW instead of a more logical decision.

[Voltor07]

My first synth was a Little Phatty. As a first synth, this thing is a beast! So it's a bit limited once you get going. So I bought a MoogerFooger when I ran out of modulation routings. And another...and a CP-251. The nice thing about the LP, is even without the CV out upgrade, it's expandable. I'm still discovering new sounds on it three years later. To me, the Little Phatty is like a Chevy and the Voyager is like a Ferrari. While a lot of guys want a Ferrari, (as I eventually want a Voyager) a Ferrari would not be a good thing to give a 16 year old driver. A Chevy would be much more practical. My 2 cents.

[Paul Norheim]

anoteoftruth said:

I think I would've been more confused with the Voyager off the bat, being a newbie to synths... but the LP made everything really easy to understand/tweak/learn from. Then after getting a RME it made it really easy to catch on to the additional features.

Interesting view, anoteoftruth. Like you, I have a Voyager RME (but not an LP). I agree that especially the modulation busses on the left side of the Voyager panel can be confusing for a newbie. But if you take the rest of the panel - from the oscillators via the mixer to the filters, ADSR's and to the output/volume - this is the basic configuration of a "typical" mono synth sound (bass/lead), and I found it extremely clearly laid out, with one knob per function.

The LP doesn't have the one-knob-per-function design. And I know that reviewers and owners find it very easy to operate the LP. But still - I would imagine that the main part of the synth that I described above is even less confusingly designed on the Voyager.

Not true?

(And I am not commenting on the editable, hidden functions now - pot mapping etc. But strictly on the knobs and buttons on the panel)

[Electrong]

I felt a bit confused when trying out a Voyager at a GC nearby several months ago, to the point of having doubts about getting it. I've owned several synths, and still have my Mini D. The Mini D is simpler than both the LP and the Voyager. Its knobs are fewer, and the signal path is very easy to understand, truly intuitive. Still, I regret not purchasing that Voyager.

I've not tried the LP but I have talked with LP owners, and watched videos, and I've owned a few Micromoogs, which I believe the LP is the modern version of (although with a better feature set).

Just because the LP has multiple functions for various knobs isn't a reason why it would be any more confusing to operate. I think the fewer knobs would make it easier.

One thing about your post that intrigues me is that you say you're a pianist. So you have good keyboard skills. I have rudimentary keyboard skills based on piano lessons at age 7 and then playing it every now and then. So I think a person with more of a challenged keyboard ability may appreciate the greater feature set of a Voyager, while a person with better piano skills who is new to synthesis might not really appreciate all those features, and may actually prefer a polyphonic synth like a DSI Prophet 08, or something like that.

I didn't know a LP has an arpeggiator. I talked to a guy who said he wanted an LP Stage II because the version I doesn't have the USB connectivity to your computer. Which version is the one at the store? If it's version I I'd go elsewhere even if you do decide to get an LP.

There's a bit of a dichotomy between keyboard players and synthesists. A synthesist would be happy with both but probably prefer the Voyager because he/she would prefer all the modulation routings and controllers and be more interested in shaping sounds, while playing one note. A keyboard player might prefer a rackmount unit and a nice large midi keyboard controller so he could maximize the result from his keyboard skills, and add modules and play the keyboard. That way you can take advantage of the polyphony other synths offer.

So there's the other question, mono-or poly-? Are you a knob-twiddler or a keyboard player, or somewhere in between? You're a beginner synthesist, so if you think you will be missing polyphony, and money is an issue (it very often is) maybe a Voyager RME with a controller and another poly-synth module to utilize your other strengths as a player while you're learning about what all the knobs do.

[Klopfgeist]

To me, the Little Phatty is like a Chevy and the Voyager is like a Ferrari. While a lot of guys want a Ferrari, (as I eventually want a Voyager) a Ferrari would not be a good thing to give a 16 year old driver.

I got my Voyager when I was 15, and now I can get around a modular better than most. Buchla is still confusing, though.

[EricK]

My advice for anyone is to never cast their sites to just get what you think you need today, you never know what you will require tomorrow.

[analoghaze]

To me, the Little Phatty is like a Chevy and the Voyager is like a Ferrari. While a lot of guys want a Ferrari, (as I eventually want a Voyager) a Ferrari would not be a good thing to give a 16 year old driver.

I got my Voyager when I was 15, and now I can get around a modular better than most. Buchla is still confusing, though.

I've been into synths for 19 years and Buchla looks confusing, but the Good Lord knows that I would love to give it a try.

My advice for anyone is to never cast their sites to just get what you think you need today, you never know what you will require tomorrow.

I have learned this as well. I try my hardest not to "waste" money on music related gear. I would much rather save for another 4-5 months or more to get what I feelo would work.
I am "somewhat" in the market for an audio interface. (finially may start recording with software!)
I have a friend who is telling me all interfaces are the same.
He swears up and down that some $100 sound card is all I need, but for some reason I am saving for some crazy product from Apogee.

It's like a kid asking what would be a good first car, and pointing him directly at a pricy BMW instead of a more logical decision.

If I could afford it, I would rather see my kids in a BMW. They are leeps and bounds safer. Stick to the road better, better handling and award winning saftey records. Just program the chip so the car cannot exceed 70mph.
A junker Chevy could kill them easier than a nice BMW.

Voyager lover for live. Personally, if I had only the money to get a Phatty, I would buy DSI.

[psicolor]

I got my Voyager when I was 15, and now I can get around a modular better than most. Buchla is still confusing, though.

If i had had a voyager at this age, i would have composed tons of symphonis to the fart with this machine
Thank god my parents bought a piano!

[EricK]

Ive seen young buck bass players at the music store who have ben playing for a year or so and want to make the transition to a 5. If I ever was in there and had the opportunity, I ried to convince them that if they were looking to jump to a 5, why not just get a 6. I had already gone through that myself having branched out from a 4, to a 5 string fretless, but still wishing that I had that hi C string.

I try to get gear that I can spend more time growing into, rather than stuff that I will get bored with after a few years due to limitations. THat being said, it is also easy to get into something TOO complicated that can turn you off just the same.

It all boils down in the end to the love one has for their craft. If they just want a hobby, let them buy something to satisfy their urges for a little while. If they have the drive and the interest to persue it for years and go through the creative periods that ebb and flow, then get something a little beyond your ability and by the time it takes you to really expres yourself on there, you will have gone through a more productive journey than you would have had you spent that same amount of time reaching the imits of that gear and had it stymie your development.

Reach for the stars rather than the ceiling.


Eric

[Electrong]

You come off sounding like a true music store sales person.

[EricK]

lol I hope thats a good thing.

[Electrong]

It simply depends on what the needs of the musician is. I've seen several professionals use LP's or even something not nearly as open-ended as it is, and they absolutely could play whatever they want to play. As I said before, if pure synth deepness is required, definitely get a Voyager. But if you want to have a synth that is incredible for leads and has many features and a clean workspace with enough knobs to do all kinds of stuff in real time, with an incredible analog sound, a LP is a great option and you would have enough left over for a larger keyboard or controller synth. Or a Voyager RME would also be a great option. I agree aim for the stars but if you know what you need and you're going to go across town or down a few blocks away, there's no need to buy a Lear Jet when you've got a nice bicycle. Money is always an object, and a keyboardist can get a Nord Electro or something and do lots with it, and still have money left over for an LP or even a Voyager rack. People don't all have the same requirements, and you can always sell the LP and upgrade with minimal difficulty. Just be sure the LP is version II so you have the computer connectivity.

[EricK]

and therefore i need to know what I'm gonna miss out on if I don't buy a Voyager.

This sounds to me like a guy who is already thinking about what he would miss out on if he settled with a phatty, he tried all the synths in the store, wants to see if its worth it. All we can do is help him make the most educated decision he can make, and thats what any salesman worth his salt would do.

I woudn't tell someone to spend the extra money if they didn't need it. Those profit hungry music store owners wouldn't be providing good customer service if they did that. I come from the school of thought where I try to encourage people to be the best that they can be. Ive been playing music for half my life, I am a passionate musician and thats what I look for in up and coming players. Someone who really loves what they do, someone who is really passionate about their craft, well they deserve the best they can provide themselves.

[narrowcaster]

Someone who really loves what they do, someone who is really passionate about their craft, well they deserve the best they can provide themselves.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that. But then again, more isn't always better. Some kinds of music need a very wide variety of timbres, but that doesn't make them better or more challenging than other kinds which stick to a smaller range of timbres and emphasize other features. So, by extension, an instrument isn't automatically better or worse by being more complex or simpler. And a musician isn't automatically less dedicated or skilled or inventive if they prioritize something besides the widest possible range of timbres.

I think people can end up talking past each other in conversations like this because the question "what am I missing out on" can be taken in two ways. In technical terms, it's pretty easy to answer how the Voyager objectively offers "more." But in artistic terms, it depends a lot more on intangibles...

P.S. Just to be a little pesky, there might also be such a thing as "missing out on simplicity."