MF-104z Spillover Mod

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:30 pm

OK, just had a look at the physical constraints of the pedal. There's really not room to put a second full-sized stomp switch anywhere near the first one. It's solid circuit board down there; there is actually a slot cut out for the existing stomp switch.

So, it looks like our options are:

1.) a toggle switch (or maybe a very small stomp switch) up on the panel somewhere near where it is now

2.) a toggle switch on the back of the pedal near the jacks

3.) no switch on the 'fooger, just a new jack on the back that you could plug a remote footswitch like the Moog FS-1 into. Yes we could add an LED to indicate spillover status with this one.

Your thoughts?

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:36 pm

I vote for this mounted on the front:

Muuwhahaha!!

SRSLY though, I though lots of people were asking for a stomp switch. Lol, listen to the description from the Moog homepage:

Imagine playing an echo-filled chorus, then switching back to playing a dry sound for the verse, all while your echoes naturally decay, or create infinitely repeating echo soundscapes then solo over them with echo-free.

Sounds like a stomp would be warranted for that case, esp. with a guitar.

Would a LED be too difficult to implement? It needs another switch pole, right?

willi · Post by **willi** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:57 pm

latigid on wrote:
Imagine playing an echo-filled chorus, then switching back to playing a dry sound for the verse, all while your echoes naturally decay, or create infinitely repeating echo soundscapes then solo over them with echo-free.
Sounds like a stomp would be warranted for that case, esp. with a guitar.

Um, neither of those examples require the spillover mod to be switched (mod enabled/disabled) during performance.. The switching in those examples is handled with the existing, standard stomp switch. The difference in the examples is the amount of feedback (which is controlled with the front panel knob, expression pedal, or CV input).

I agree with Moog's decision that this isn't something that is likely to be switched a lot by most musicians during a performance. I would always leave it on.. the way the existing stomp switch setup kills the repeats means I don't use the stomp switch! I'm not really sure where I would prefer the mod switch mounted, but the control panel is an obvious location that should always be accessible, while the back panel might not be accessible in some setups. So having the option to install it anywhere is nice, or to request a custom footswitch setup. I'd personally prefer not to have to use a footswitch for this function, though.

Amos, can you describe how the switch is connected internally for those of us who wish to implement their own solution? Or is the mod more complicated internally that simply switching a jumper or bridging some solder pads?

Thanks!

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:26 pm

It is more complicated... there are multiple poles to wire up, traces to cut on the circuit board, and components to de-solder.

Yes, that description on the website is describing a scenario where the spillover is switched on all the time and the player is just using the normal bypass function of the delay (except, with spillover).

Another option would be to hard-wire the spillover so that it is always enabled. You would lose the original bypass function completely in this case. That's certainly the easiest option.

And yes, I wasn't imagining that people would toggle the spillover off or on during a performance... I guess you might want to do this between one song and another, maybe...

as for the LED, it would require a third pole if you were using a toggle switch, but for the option where you have a jack connected to a remote foot switch, this would already require some active electronics to be added, and the same active electronics would allow an LED to be switched at the same time, fairly easily.

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:52 pm

I think Amos' idea about wiring a jack in the back for a remote switch is a very good one. It sounds easy to implement, and it's a really clean solution. It might even make it easy for Moog to implement the mod as a standard feature in future 104s!

But one thing... can the pony still be available as an optional factory mod?

Edited...

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:39 pm

I asked about the jack-in-the-back option when the mod was announced and accepted the reasoning at the time re: why the jack option wasn't feasable due to the amount of labor required to execute the mod in that manner.

I guess I would use this as an opportunity to ask Moog to reconsider the jack option.

Hell yeah I wanna switch that spillover on and off whenever I deem it to repeat whatever for me to then play over. The footswitch idea really makes that simple for guitar players.

Of course, you know the next thing we'll want is to put a gate signal into that jack to trigger the spillover effect.

How much bosser can it get than that???

I hope Moog will reconsider and maybe offer a couple different versions of this mod, even if they require different price points to make it worth their while. Nobody is gonna complain about prices for really elegantly-done mods to enhance the functionality of the 104.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:03 pm

yes it will definitely cost more to do the jack-input for switching spillover on/off... more parts, more labor. But it would be extremely boss.

So, where would you want the spillover-status LED?

c7sus · Post by **c7sus** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:08 pm

Wherever it looks the bossest.

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:46 am

Amos wrote:yes it will definitely cost more to do the jack-input for switching spillover on/off... more parts, more labor. But it would be extremely boss.

So, where would you want the spillover-status LED?

Might be kinda cool where the toggle switch is right now?

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:05 am

Amos wrote:So, where would you want the spillover-status LED?

How about below the bypass LED?

Just Me · Post by **Just Me** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:20 am

I'm not trying to complicate the works, I just want the switch where it looks like it belongs. That would be the back of the unit in my opinion. I personally don't "need" an LED for it or a footswitch on a jack. Those would be nice, but not necesary for me. I just didn't like the looks of the existing mod, just looked too much like a circuit bent mod to me.

Amos · Post by **Amos** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:35 pm

Just Me: That's easy then. If you send in a delay to be spillover-modded, just ask us to install a toggle switch on the back of the unit instead of on the face. It's the same amount of work to put it there as it is to put it on the panel.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:35 pm

Amos,
I like the idea of a new jack and footswitch, but if we went this route, is this something that could be controlled via gate signal?

This would be so killer.

Eric

Edit:
I just now saw C7's mention of this now.

Jumbo Fuzz · Post by **Jumbo Fuzz** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:02 pm

As a guitarist, I have to say that the Moog FS-1 Footswitch option would be very, very cool.

mayidunk · Post by **mayidunk** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:05 pm

If you put in the jack, people could even use it without a foot switch by just plugging in a shorted 1/4" jack to turn the mod on. Too easy!