MP 201 fully compatible with Eventide stompboxes?

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divido09
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:04 am

MP 201 fully compatible with Eventide stompboxes?

Post by divido09 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:53 am

Hey guys,
Have been checking out the MP 201 recently and it looks like a really sweet deal.. Just wanted to get some clarification on controlling other devices that are not Moog-related, namely the Eventide Stompboxes. Firstly, my midi knowledge is pretty minimal. Ideally what i would like to be able to do with the MP 201 is to have full control over 2/3 Eventide pedals; ie switching bypass on/off, tapping tempo, changing banks/loading presets, altering parameters via the use of the expression pedal etc... Also, i would to utilize some of the midi capabilities of my Moogerfooger Murf-105M with the use of the MP 201 while at the same time controlling these other pedals. Would all this be possible?
Thanks in advance,
Dave

Amos
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Post by Amos » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:40 pm

Hello,

I think it's safe to say you will be able to do all the things you describe. The only limitations would be how extensive the MIDI implementation of the Eventide pedals is, and whether their expression inputs can accept an active voltage from the MP201.

The MP201 can only do four separate functions at any one time, but the preset memory has now been expanded to100 presets so it should be easy to set up as many as you need to control all the different aspects of your gear.

Mp201 channels can perform dual functions, with a bit of clever application. For example, you can set up a tap-tempo LFO and set it to output MIDI clock. Now you have a .MIDI clock you can use to start, stop and run your sequencer, DAW, Time Factor pedal or whatever... But in addition to this clock the channel is also generating a useful LFO. You can set the MP201 foot pedal to control the LFO amount or offset, and use either CV or MIDI output from the LFO as a performance modulation for any compatible aspect of your gear. This still leaves three more channels you can set up to control the rest of your rig. :-)

Cheers,

Amos

jufros
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:15 pm

Post by jufros » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:40 pm

My answer: sort of. The expression pedal will function perfectly, but using the MP-201 to control the tempo in anyway will lead you to serious frustration. We'll see how this is addressed in the firmware update.

jufros
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:15 pm

Post by jufros » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:55 am

I took my MP-201 off the shelf (it really hasn't been getting used at all due to the plethora of bugs that plague it) to actually test how well it worked with the Eventide pedals. Here were my findings:

Pitchfactor:
-In order to program heel values on the PF, you need a CV heel value of 0 on the MP-201.
-Unfortunately, the MP-201 does not trigger any actual CC data on the PF until you reach about 2208 (MIDI value of about 52). If you were to set the heal value at 2208 on the MP-201, you wouldn't be able to program heel values on the PF.
-This makes the PitchFlex "Whammy" patch completely unusable and will give you annoyingly jumpy performance on pretty much every other sound.

Modfactor:
-A smooth sweep on the MP-201 will usually correspond to a smooth sweep in MIDI values on the Modfactor screen.
-The fact that you're seeing MIDI numbers rise and fall proportionately to the speed at which you sweep the pedal is completely meaningless. The resolution is extremely jumpy and sounds awful.
-You can't use the MP-201 for the Modfactor's filter sounds at all because your ears literally can't discern a sweep at all.
-I tested this a few times: the MP-201 will exponentially increase the MIDI sweep the higher towards toe value you get. The bottom 35% of the sweep is pretty consistent but things get really ugly up top.

Timefactor:
-For some reason, it can't "keep up" with the MP-201. If you sweep heel to toe as quickly as possible on the MP-201, it will take the Timefactor about another second to reach toe MIDI value.
-If you're sweeping back and forth like you would with a wah pedal, the Timefactor's screen will display a lot of nonsensical MIDI expression data and alternate between values of 40-50 and 70-80.
-This visual glitch actually creates a considerable amount of audio unpredictability and unpleasantness.

I wired...

MP-201 MIDI OUT -> Pitchfactor MIDI IN
Pitchfactor MIDI THRU -> Modfactor MIDI IN
Modfactor MIDI THRU -> Timefactor MIDI IN

and a second time..

MP-201 MIDI OUT -> Timefactor MIDI IN
Timefactor MIDI THRU -> Modfactor MIDI IN
Modfactor MIDI THRU -> Pitchfactor MIDI IN

The results were identical each time.

I have not had these kinds of problems with the Behringer controller ($75 used on ebay) at all.

Amos
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Post by Amos » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:02 am

Several of these issues sound like the MP may be swamping the Eventide pedals with too much MIDI data too quickly. There's a parameter in the new firmware (Utilities Menu, MIDI setup) called "MIDI Governor" which allows you to limit the rate at which the MP201 puts out MIDI data. This should help, I think.

The oddness you report with the MIDI pedal values on the Pitch Factor is difficult for me to understand. I'm pretty sure one of the guys here at Moog has that pedal; I'll see if I can check it out in person.

Atomicunderware
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Post by Atomicunderware » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:06 am

I have both the Modfactor and Timefactor, and have had similar issues. I just downloaded the new firmware and will try it tonight...

One of the most frustrating things that I cannot seem to rectify - when I map the bypass/activate switch from one of the factors to the MP, it is always in reverse, ie when the factor is on, the channel on the MP is off and vice-versa. It makes no difference what settings I alter on the MP, initial state etc. It's probably something very simple, but I just can't figure it out...

Amos
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Post by Amos » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:11 am

I'm at a bit of a disadvantage since I have not used the Eventide pedals, but if the Eventide is sending a MIDI cc when you toggle it on/off, it sounds like it must be sending a low cc value when active and a high value when bypassed. The MP201 assumes that low = off and high = on (which is generally a safe assumption). You could check this by monitoring the Eventide MIDI output on a computer, or perhaps it's in their manual somewhere...

Atomicunderware
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Post by Atomicunderware » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:27 am

Actually it's the MP201 that's sending its MIDI info to the Eventides, so the MP is acting as the master controller for the 'factors.
I will try again tonight - the Eventides are a new (but superb) addition to my set-up, and I fully plan on getting the MP201 to control everything, it will just take some time.

Amos
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Post by Amos » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:45 am

Atomicunderware wrote:Actually it's the MP201 that's sending its MIDI info to the Eventides, so the MP is acting as the master controller for the 'factors.
I will try again tonight - the Eventides are a new (but superb) addition to my set-up, and I fully plan on getting the MP201 to control everything, it will just take some time.
I checked the Modfactor manual --
pages 31-33 cover how to configure external MIDI CC control of the Eventide pedal parameters, including active/bypass. It looks like the Eventide pedals are set up similar to the MP201 in that you can set a MIN VALUE and MAX VALUE (of the Eventide parameter) such that sending MIDI CC value zero makes the Eventide parameter go to the MIN VALUE, and sending MIDI CC value 127 makes the Eventide parameter go to the MAX VALUE.
From the Eventide manual: "You can set the minimum value to be greater than the maximum value. When you do
so, when the MIDI CC’s sends an increasing value, the parameter value will decrease."

This means you should be able to "flip" the Eventide's Active/Bypass response, just by editing the CC mapping for Bypass, and reversing the MIN and MAX value settings that it has now. Try making this change on the Eventide boxes and see how it works out...

-Amos

Amos
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Post by Amos » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:53 pm

jufros wrote:Pitchfactor:
-Unfortunately, the MP-201 does not trigger any actual CC data on the PF until you reach about 2208 (MIDI value of about 52). If you were to set the heal value at 2208 on the MP-201, you wouldn't be able to program heel values on the PF.
Jufros: I'm not sure about this of course, but you might want to check the same MIN/MAX mapping I just described above on your Pitchfactor... maybe this is related to the oddness you are describing with its response to expression CCs from the Multipedal?

Atomicunderware
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Post by Atomicunderware » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:16 am

Thanks a lot for the info...very much appreciated. I tried a few things last night and actually worked out another way to achieve the same thing, simply by mapping the footswitch to the MP201 rather than the bypass - this worked, but I will try what you suggest.

I loaded up the new firmware, and the MIDI governor works very well. The Eventides parameters no longer have trouble keeping up with the expression pedal. So glad this has worked out...the combination of MP201, 'foogers, and 'factors is a little scary...so many possibilities.

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